PLC networking

[ragwo]

with an ethernet cable hooked up from one Reactor to the other.

I may be wrong here, but I don't think a direct cable will work with Premers. Each Premier will need a ethernet connection to a switch and receive a IP address from DHCP. I do not own a pair so I apologize if this is old information and not correct anymore. @ragwo ? @struts ?

I've read somewhere at DC that direct connection between two Phantom I is enabled, but I've never tried it myself and can't find the posting at the moment. Direct connection didn't work in the first versions of DOS2.

[supaDean]

Hi and thanks.

Ok, so I said I'm tired of trying to fix Devialet's problem, but have done some more homework anyway:

Direct Optical Mode
Maybe the Direct Optical Mode is the way to go as the Phantoms can be configured in stereo, and I don't require wireless. The Devialet site advises Direct Optical Mode disables all wireless features so no direct wireless music streaming (Spotify etc), UPnP, or Roon. However, as I've my Roon Core directly attached to my preamp this would be a non-issue. I'm unsure if Direct Optical Mode will also bypass the Devialet phone app? Thanks for bringing the Optical Direct Mode to my attention. And, you're right - it is interesting Devialet Customer Service hasn't suggested this route.

By the sounds of it going the Direct Optical Mode route could possibly make the dropout issues null and void. Who knows. Maybe the issue is the Premiers not properly handling hi-res signals no matter if the info arrives optical or via a hard-wired ethernet or wireless router connection.

For those interested, here's the link I found to set up Premiers in Direct Optical Mode:
https://help.devialet.com/hc/en-us/artic...M-I-CUSTOM

Different DAC Capabilities / hard IP between the Premier Models
It's interesting to note the different internal DAC capabilities of the two models as advertised by Devialet. Also, does hard IP mean a direct ethernet connect between two Phantoms will not work? I don't see this in the specs of other current models, including the Reactors.

Premier Phantom I Glossy Chrome 103dB (model I currently have)
Digital to Analog Converter: Devialet DAC embedded in ADH2 intelligence, 24bits/96kHz
Processor: ARM Cortex-A9 MPCore 800MHz dual-core processor | hard IP | FPGA in a unique System-On-Chip (SoC) Cyclone V 512MB DDR3 memory

Premier Phantom 1 Glossy Silver 105dB
Digital to Analog Converter: Devialet DAC embedded in ADH2 intelligence, 24bits/192kHz
Processor: ARM Cortex-A9 MPCore 800MHz dual-core processor | hard IP | FPGA in a unique System-On-Chip (SoC) Cyclone V 512MB DDR3 memory


Maybe the 24/96 information travelling to each Premier Chrome causes dropouts because the signal for each Phantom must travel via through a router, and the glitch in the Phantom's software causes the dropouts.

Maybe the Premier Silver can handle the higher 24/192 information as advertised or maybe feeding it 24/96 would eliminate the dropout problem. Who knows.

Devialet Customer Service
In any event I've written to Devialet. I've mentioned bumping up to the Premier Silver, going Optical Direct, or trading in my Reactors (which I don't want to do) for the current model Phantom I with remote 103dB. I'll wait to see how their customer rep responds.

Cheers.

[supaDean]

A quick update:

First off.... Happy Easter!

Secondly... It was quite easy to put the Phantom Premier Glossy 103dB into direct optical mode. As my other Premier is being replaced by Devialet I put the one here into mono mode. No issues. No dropouts. When in optical mode the Devialet app does not see it. The Premier's volume is simply handled by my preamp. During optical direct mode setup configuration options for a Phantom are mono, left channel or right channel.

From what I can tell, I will need an optical splitter to set up the 2nd Premier for a 2-channel stereo setup. I've ordered one from Amazon in the event I need it. I haven't yet heard back from Devialet as it's a long weekend. I estimate the replacement Premier from Devialet will arrive within a week or so. Hopefully the Premiers in direct optical mode in stereo will go well, thus resolving the dropout problem. This is also assuming the optical splitter I've ordered is compatible and works as advertised.

I don't see a stereo implementation being possible without the optical splitter. If Devialet advises otherwise I'll let you know.

Stay tuned.

[ogs]

Most likely you only need optical to one Phantom. It will use ethernet to the other - either direct, like Reactors, or via the switch if connected individually. The splitter option will probably also work. You may have to disconnect ethernet to avoid a signal from "the other side". The splitter option might even sound a little better as the signal transfer is completely identical for the two channels...

[supaDean]

Hi ogs and thanks. You may very well be correct. I'll see what Devialet advises. A shame the Premiers 103dB don't work as they should out of the box. Interestingly, the custom Phantoms Devialet offers for custom installs have all the wireless stripped out.

I think I read somewhere using optical direct does extend the Phantom's frequency range every so slightly.

[ogs]

I believe the Phantom I Custom is an ordinary Phantom sold with a 5 year warranty through the "professional" channel. The Phantom II Custom has Dante built-in. For the Phantom I Custom you'll need a "Dante dongle" which is ethernet in & optical out. Devialet says that Phantom I Custom is Dante enabled, but the "Dante dongle" is not in the box AFAIK. It must be purchased separately . Wireless gets disabled when "Direct optical" is enabled.

[supaDean]

Hey All. Quick update. The replacement phantom premier 103dB arrived in good order. I have now set the pair up in stereo via optical direct mode. Have hard-wired Ethernet and toslink to both on the Tree stands. That’s a bit tricky to do but patience paid off. I acquired an optical toslink splitter which splits the signal to the left and the right channels. Everything works beautifully; no issues.

Next will be to test using Ethernet and wireless to see if dropouts occur. But in any event happy to have solved the dropouts by going optical direct. These phantoms sound fantastic. Everything I throw at them no matter how low, hard hitting or subtle, they handle everything with authority. Very balanced and sweet sounding. No bloat. I can imagine the Golds have a sweeter treble with their titanium tweeter, but then we’d just be nit picking.

I’ll be staying in tonight enjoying a wide variety of tunes.

Enjoy the music.

[ogs]

@supaDean Did you get a chance to do a new Dirac correction? We'd also love to know your verdict on the difference to the II 98dB. A little early for that maybe, but in due course...

[supaDean]

@supaDean  Did you get a chance to do a new Dirac correction? We'd also love to know your verdict on the difference to the II 98dB. A little early for that maybe, but in due course...

Where to start... here are some thoughts.

First off, it's perhaps easy to forget what a breakthrough Phantoms are. What Devialet has accomplished with audio playback is pretty astounding. Not just Phantoms, but their amplifiers as well. It's almost difficult to criticize, but as lovers of music, music playback in-house and gear, there are things to mention about the Phantoms.

Just to first address it quickly because it should be addressed,... comparing the Phantom II 98dB and the Phantom II Premier 103dB. As with any speaker the biggest influencer on their sound is the room they're being asked to play in. Without paying attention to speaker placement, room correction (digital and physical), power source, and audio source, one is wasting money. Just go buy an inexpensive set up and be done with it. Case in point, after setting up the stereo Phantom I to replace the stereo Phantom II, I placed the smaller Phantoms as mono speakers in other rooms. One is on a dresser, the other is on a shelf. Both are not remarkable. I could use a good boombox and have sound that is just as satisfying.

Okay... the quick comparison. I've a relatively small living room as a listening space. There are a couple of large, plush sofas, big cushions and a decent carpet which fill the room and act as physical room correction. No sound wall paneling or anything of the sort. There's also a large television further back, with Phantoms sitting forward so nothing sits in-between them affecting soundstage. The main difference between the Phantom I and Phantom II is scale. The larger Phantom sounds larger. and can play louder. Devialet uses the word "dense" to describe their sound, and I'd say it's a good word. It doesn't mean better or worse. It's just different. I thoroughly enjoyed having the smaller Phantoms as my main speakers the past couple of years in my space. Also, appearance should be looked at. The smaller Phantoms are remarkably small for the large sound they produce, and as such they are fairly unobtrusive. In my room they had no problem filling it with high fidelity sound. Any criticism I'd have is the Devialet stands for the Phantom II, the "Legs". I think they're designed more for form than function. They should stand taller, as the "Tree" does for the larger Phantom. Secondly, the Phantom I is big compared to the Phantom II. They dominate the room. And if you're not a fan of their design, well, let's say they stare at you like large droids from Star Wars, especially from the front when you've sat down to enjoy music or TV.

Speaking of TV, I really enjoy the large Phantoms for TV watching. They throw out a large soundstage that fills the room, and I don't miss a full home theater set up. They easily shake the room, as they can do for music.

The elephant in the room is audio dropouts. I believe it's a problem with Roon playback. Maybe in combination with a network problem? I've had three different ISP routers / switches with 2 different providers, two different sets of Phantoms, two different Roon Cores, and the problem has persisted. It was horrible with the stereo Phantom I. Even hard-wired via Ethernet dropouts were frequent. With the Phantom II's now set up as mono speakers wirelessly, the dropouts are much less frequent, but occurred twice this morning during a a half hour of playback. The dropouts were much more frequent on all Phantoms when the larger Phantoms were hooked up both with Ethernet and wireless, so there is definitely something going on. I read on another post somewhere on DC, from another member, that Devialet engineers are aware there is a playback issue with hi-res file playback via Roon and the Phantoms. If that's the case it's really not acceptable as the Phantoms are certified "Roon Ready".

Roon "casts" hi-res files to Chromecast smart speakers i have in the house without any issues what-so-ever. None.

I've been dealing with a Devialet customer service rep to try and solve the issue, but I feel it shouldn't be an issue to begin with. She hadn't even mentioned Direct Optical Mode as a fix. I believe this is because it is considered a custom install, and is not really how the Phantoms are designed for use... the rep actually asked me why I've hooked up the Phantoms the way I do when it's not how they were intended to be used.... she was referring to my using a preamp (my Dirac room correction). So obviously not all service reps are audiophiles. 

Also, when setting up in Direct Optical Mode, Devialet recommends setting the max volume to 70% to avoid compression. I presume this is for playing at louder volumes. In my space it's not really an issue at all.... I don't need 500 watts RMS per channel!

The process of dealing with a Devialet customer service rep is time consuming and goes on for weeks with everything done via email, considering the 6 hour time difference between Canada and France, and having a full time career. Perhaps there is the option of getting a North American rep on the phone during trouble shooting, but I didn't have a chance to explore that.

I should note that in every other respect their customer service is wonderful. They've replaced two Phantoms for me that arrived with damage (one from Devialet direct, the other from a retailer), no questions asked. And they've been responsive with other email inquiries.

Anyway, I hope the above is useful to some. Here's a couple of images of my listening space with both the Phantom I and Phantom II setup in stereo on their respective Devialet stands. I think I've posted these on other threads on DC, but here they are. Cheers.

[ogs]

So what you are saying is that in a small-ish room the Phantom II 98 is not that far behind your new Phantom I 103? That is high praise indeed for Devialet!