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Stereonet Devialet Article
#21
(11-Jul-2022, 06:14)audio_engr Wrote:
(11-Jul-2022, 06:04)daniel.avasilichioaei Wrote: Great.
How about the temperature? It is the same now?
Just to make sure, play some FLACs with different sample rates (e.g. 44.1 kHtz and 192 kHz), and check if both units are playing the same sample rate.

44.1k to 192k all plays incl. DSD64 hence no issues. Temperatures of L vs. R are almost identical. And the best part is vocal material esp. with center singer is dead-dead center! I've a feeling when in [Master + Companion] config, very likely R-ch slightly suffers, thus not absolutely identical to L-ch. And this might be true for 210-Pro, 440-Pro & 1000-Pro owners.

It would be great to hear from other 440-Pro & 1000-Pro owners who have their setup configured as [Master + Companion] as to what are their thoughts.


Vocal material: this could be an effect of the bug in the configurator (it does not clone the master settings to the companion), depending on what settings you use. At two masters, this bug no longer manifests itself.
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#22
I definitely want to give this a try but I currently have my 440 Pro configured with inputs on both master and companion. Is that not possible in this dual master setup? Just trying to get my head around it. To do this, I would create two configurations in the configurator - both for dual mono but one config would set the Master just for the left channel and include all inputs and the other config would set the Master for the right channel and include no inputs. I would NOT use either of the Companion config files. Is that essentially it? And the link cable would go from the left master that has all inputs to the right Master that has none.

For those that have done this... are you all hearing a noticeable difference in sound quality? Has anyone vetted this configuration setup with Devialet? I'd be fascinated to hear a technical discussion as to how this is different and why it produces a different sound quality. (and most of all, is there any risk or downside to this?)
Devialet 440 Pro (two 220s)- Oracle CD transport - Kuzma Stabi S/Stogi S turntable - Von Schweikert VR-35 speakers - JPS SC3 SCs - PI Audio power conditioning -
Triode Wire Labs ICs and PCs - Roon on NUC 8i7beh running ROCK
Durham, NC USA
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#23
I have been using such configurations for many years.
On a purely theoretical level, the only difference between this configuration and the master-companion is that "companion" receives commands from the master, but does not use them at all. Instead, use only his own configuration and remote control commands.
However, the theory is not covered by the Devialet configurator for master-companion configuration, as not all the necessary commands are available to the companion (received from the master or in its configuration file).
The audio signal received is the same (so there should be no SQ differences). The only source of SQ difference is if you have enabled certain features with different settings than factory default. One of these is the reference frequency for bass and treble - this is one of the situations in which the master-companion configuration fails (master works with the settings in the configurator, and companion with the default factory settings). But it is not the only one...
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#24
(11-Jul-2022, 17:34)mdconnelly Wrote: I definitely want to give this a try but I currently have my 440 Pro configured with inputs on both master and companion.  Is that not possible in this dual master setup?  Just trying to get my head around it.  To do this, I would create two configurations in the configurator - both for dual mono but one config would set the Master just for the left channel and include all inputs and the other config would set the Master for the right channel and include no inputs.  I would NOT use either of the Companion config files.  Is that essentially it?  And the link cable would go from the left master that has all inputs to the right Master that has none.

For those that have done this... are you all hearing a noticeable difference in sound quality?  Has anyone vetted this configuration setup with Devialet?  I'd be fascinated to hear a technical discussion as to how this is different and why it produces a different sound quality.  (and most of all, is there any risk or downside to this?)

I was using Master-Companion config for all these years and I didn't have any sources on my Companion. In fact, I use only 1 source and that is streaming which is via Ethernet on the Master. I also use the RCA -> AES as my digital link cable between the Dual monos. 

Upon creating Two Masters; Master-L [for Left ch] and Master-R [for Right ch], I noticed that the center image improved quite a bit and there's more fill and info there than earlier. Its all of a sudden more dense. Apart from this, I did not notice any other sonic changes.
Roon Nucleus w/ Hypsos PSU & AQ Tornado + Roon RAAT  >  AQ Diamond ETH > etherREGEN using SFP + Hypsos PSU | CEC TL-5 CD Transport + AQ Z3 + 3 x Orea Indigo > AQ Diamond AES/EBU 
Devialet 440-Pro CI >  AQ Wel Sig  RCA-XLR | 6 x Orea Bronze, 2 x Synergistic Research Atmosphere PC | B&W 802 D3 {Bi-wired}  >  AQ WEL Signature (Biwire)
REL G1-Mk2 pair | PS Audio PP 12 + AQ NRG-1000 | Puritan GroundMaster + RouteMaster | SAM DISABLED - DPM OFF - Northern Virginia - US
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#25
The fact that there is any sonic change is remarkable and makes one wonder why Devialet has not suggested doing this or even acknowledged that it as a viable option. I will definitely give it a try sometime soon.

@audio_engr - in doing this, did you change anything else? Were you only using the master previously as input? Using a trigger cable?
Did you change anything with the way the link cable is configured? Did you do a compare of the before/after config files to see what exactly changed? Just being curious while scratching my head as to the differences.
Devialet 440 Pro (two 220s)- Oracle CD transport - Kuzma Stabi S/Stogi S turntable - Von Schweikert VR-35 speakers - JPS SC3 SCs - PI Audio power conditioning -
Triode Wire Labs ICs and PCs - Roon on NUC 8i7beh running ROCK
Durham, NC USA
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#26
Devialet has not suggested doing this because this is a workaround, which should not have been necessary, as the configurator should have worked 100% well.

Trigger cable is not required; this is useful when using a real companion. The only cable required is RCA_OUT - RCA_IN or RCA_OUT - AES / EBU.

File comparison:
- The MASTER file is not changed at all.
- The COMPANION file (second master in workaround) is completely changed. Basically, it is identical to the one from MASTER, but with a different audio channel (left/right) and another audio input.
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#27
(12-Jul-2022, 21:49)mdconnelly Wrote: The fact that there is any sonic change is remarkable and makes one wonder why Devialet has not suggested doing this or even acknowledged that it as a viable option.  I will definitely give it a try sometime soon. 

@audio_engr - in doing this, did you change anything else?  Were you only using the master previously as input?  Using a trigger cable?
Did you change anything with the way the link cable is configured?  Did you do a compare of the before/after config files to see what exactly changed?  Just being curious while scratching my head as to the differences.

It is indeed a great pity that this sort of an issue ONLY affect the top two most expensive Experts in Devialet's lineup. It also affects 210-Pro but I am yet to see multiple users of 210-Pro as probably they end up buying the 220-Pro. 

Coming back to your questions, I did not change 'a thing' in my setup except inserting 2 SD cards and allowing my 440-Pro to read the config files. 
And yes, earlier, I was using only my Master since I have a single source which is streaming, hence the Ethernet input of the Master as my only input and No Trigger cable. 

When I bought my Dual Mono in 2016 as D400 (Master & Companion), I initially started out with the stock RCA (sPDIF) - -> RCA (sPDIF) cable and few months later also tried the RCA (sPDIF) - -> AES/EBU XLR. I found that the RCA->AES to be much superior to my ears. Hence, I had Audioquest build me a RCA->AES cable that I currently still continue to use. In 2018, I had my D400 upgraded to 440-Pro CI and I continued to use them as a Master + Companion till 2 days back. 

Upon configuring the SD cards as {Master-L + Master-R}, I listened to my setup and the next day, inserted my older {Master + Companion} cards and listened again. Immediately, the dense center fill lightened up and that vibrant energy very slightly receded backwards towards the Front-Wall. Once again, after 30 minutes, I reverted back to the {Master-L + Master-R} SD cards and immediately the sonics were more dense and bolder. 

I am still listening to my "new config" setup and realise that I will stick to this and not the older {Master + Companion} setup. 

Incidentally, I recall last year when I got an EMM Labs MA3 (Streamer+DAC+Preamp) with Bricasti M28 monoblock power amps for trial at home, the center fill was just like how it is now, i.e. with {Master-L + Master-R} config and I kept scratching my head as to why with other electronics, the presentation is different yet more realistic. I sincerely thank @daniel.avasilichioaei for showing the path to solve this crazy Devialet dilemma.   Smile
Roon Nucleus w/ Hypsos PSU & AQ Tornado + Roon RAAT  >  AQ Diamond ETH > etherREGEN using SFP + Hypsos PSU | CEC TL-5 CD Transport + AQ Z3 + 3 x Orea Indigo > AQ Diamond AES/EBU 
Devialet 440-Pro CI >  AQ Wel Sig  RCA-XLR | 6 x Orea Bronze, 2 x Synergistic Research Atmosphere PC | B&W 802 D3 {Bi-wired}  >  AQ WEL Signature (Biwire)
REL G1-Mk2 pair | PS Audio PP 12 + AQ NRG-1000 | Puritan GroundMaster + RouteMaster | SAM DISABLED - DPM OFF - Northern Virginia - US
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#28
Glad to hear. Though we should definitely write Devialet about it and urge them to finally fix this!
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#29
(15-Jul-2022, 09:01)markush Wrote: Glad to hear. Though we should definitely write Devialet about it and urge them to finally fix this!


I notified Devialet a few years ago about the problems in the dual-mono configurator. I sent them technical details, comparisons of configuration files to show what exactly needs to be corrected, etc.
You all know what the practical result was...  Sad
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#30
(15-Jul-2022, 09:27)daniel.avasilichioaei Wrote:
(15-Jul-2022, 09:01)markush Wrote: Glad to hear. Though we should definitely write Devialet about it and urge them to finally fix this!


I notified Devialet a few years ago about the problems in the dual-mono configurator. I sent them technical details, comparisons of configuration files to show what exactly needs to be corrected, etc.
You all know what the practical result was...  Sad
I did also. They did inform that they can do corrected configurations. Of course they can, but why not fix the configurator...
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