Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The Absolute Sound disects SAM
#21
(19-Jan-2021, 14:45)chrisc Wrote: The scientist in our audio club (he designed the Square Kilometre Array in South Africa, 40 radio telescopes operating in conjunction) and undoubtedly a clever fellow, reproduced the SAM effect using an infinitely variable digital sound processor

He first analysed the effects, then plotted them and reproduced them using a circuit based on a Focal DSP

Side by side, using a pair of Vivid Giya 1 speakers, the audience of 28 visitors thought the effect identical.  What we were quite shocked over, was that the overall sound was better when no SAM effect or DSP effect was used.  We were using a Devialet 440Pro dual mono

It was thought that the Vivids were capable of reproducing anything delivered, without assistance
I own Vivid B1 Decade speakers paired with an Expert 220 Pro.  Interestingly, I found that SAM worked really well with a pair of Vivid 1.5 (two-way) speakers that I owned previously.  Devialet does not have a SAM profile for the B1 Decade, though they have one for the earlier B1 speaker.  When I inquired about whether Devialet might create a profile for the B1 Decade, I decided to contact Vivid directly for their thoughts.  You may find their response interesting:

"We do not really believe the SAM algorithm adds value when used on our 3- and 4-way speakers.  In the main due to the "over designed" high levels of linearity (unusual), nature of our speakers.  Interestingly, most owners have communicated they prefer SAM in the off position.  But of course, this is personal.  SAM is really a (cheat) for the vast majority of loudspeakers out there utilizing the inferior (inexpensive), "long coil short gap" design principle (an over-hung motor).  These drivers are notoriously non-linear, especially at higher excursions. You will be amazed to her that the vast majority of our competitors utilize this inferior technology.

[Image: 0?ui=2&ik=f7474c346c&attid=0.1.1&permmsg...s&disp=emb]
Devialet Expert 220 Pro Kinki EX-M7 power amp tethered to a fiber-fed Lumin X1 streamer via Grimm XLRs, Vivid B1 Decade speakers in Rosso Barchetta red (only 200 produced in a limited edition), Roon Nucleus with a Samsung 860 EVO 2TB SSD, etherREGEN switch fed by a Sonore opticalModule (and Sonore-supplied transceivers and 1M optical cable) with a SOtM dCBL-Cat7 cable to my Nucleus and a DH Labs Reunion Cat8 to my Lumin T2 streamer, Keces P8 linear power supply feeding a (to come) NUC and EtherREGEN switch with an external AfterDark OCXO clock., and opticalModule (5V/1A), AudioQuest Niagara 1000 power conditioner, ASI LiveLine loom (purchased directly from Franck Tchang when I lived in France), Less Loss Firewall for Speakers and Roon lifetime license with Tidal streaming.
Reply
#22
(19-Jan-2021, 14:45)chrisc Wrote: What we were quite shocked over, was that the overall sound was better when no SAM effect or DSP effect was used.

I don't see why you were so supprised Smile

Every DSP processing applied on the signal deteriorates the sound quality - resolution, transparency, dynamics. So far, I haven't heard any DSP processing which is applied on one part of the frequency range that doesn't affect the signal on completely different frequency range. Even very simple ones like high-pass filter. It's just the question whether the benefits of DSP usage are greater than drawbacks.

The higher the quality of the system - the easier to hear the DSP artifacts.
Devialet Expert 440 Pro | Dynaudio Confidence 50 | 2x SVS SB16-Ultra
Anthem MRX 720 | Dynaudio Excite X28 | Dynaudio Emit M20
LG OLED 77 CX | LG OLED 65 C7






Reply
#23
FWIW, i have preferred SAM on (but dialed down to 15% or less) on both my Magico Q1 and M3. The difference on the M3 is much less pronounced, but still there, with SAM providing a more open, dimensional soundstage. On the Q1, the difference was more evident. This again is with SAM dialed way down, so it's the phase correction, not the bass correction, that I'm mostly impressed by.

YMMV, of course, but in my experience, SAM makes a difference, even with relatively high end speakers.
Devialet 1000 Pro Core Infinity, Magico M3, Nordost Frey 2 speaker cable, PS Audio P15 Power Plant, Shunyata Alpha EF AC cable, Mac Mini running ROON.
Reply
#24
(20-Jan-2021, 02:15)Delija Wrote: Every DSP processing applied on the signal deteriorates the sound quality - resolution, transparency, dynamics. So far, I haven't heard any DSP processing which is applied on one part of the frequency range that doesn't affect the signal on completely different frequency range. Even very simple ones like high-pass filter. It's just the question whether the benefits of DSP usage are greater than drawbacks.

The higher the quality of the system - the easier to hear the DSP artifacts.


This is exactly my experience. This is why I have given up any DSP processing (both from Roon and Devialet - including SAM).
The only exception I have found so far is the DSP from the RME ADI-2 DAC FS.
Reply
#25
(20-Jan-2021, 06:29)daniel.avasilichioaei Wrote:
(20-Jan-2021, 02:15)Delija Wrote: Every DSP processing applied on the signal deteriorates the sound quality - resolution, transparency, dynamics. So far, I haven't heard any DSP processing which is applied on one part of the frequency range that doesn't affect the signal on completely different frequency range. Even very simple ones like high-pass filter. It's just the question whether the benefits of DSP usage are greater than drawbacks.

The higher the quality of the system - the easier to hear the DSP artifacts.


This is exactly my experience. This is why I have given up any DSP processing (both from Roon and Devialet - including SAM).
The only exception I have found so far is the DSP from the RME ADI-2 DAC FS.


PLUS 2 !!  

I've been using SAM @ OFF on my B&W 802 D3 for over an year now & found engaging SAM just deteriorates the performance.
Roon Nucleus w/ Hypsos PSU & AQ Tornado + Roon RAAT  >  AQ Diamond ETH > etherREGEN using SFP + Hypsos PSU | CEC TL-5 CD Transport + AQ Z3 + 3 x Orea Indigo > AQ Diamond AES/EBU 
Devialet 440-Pro CI >  AQ Wel Sig  RCA-XLR | 6 x Orea Bronze, 2 x Synergistic Research Atmosphere PC | B&W 802 D3 {Bi-wired}  >  AQ WEL Signature (Biwire)
REL G1-Mk2 pair | PS Audio PP 12 + AQ NRG-1000 | Puritan GroundMaster + RouteMaster | SAM DISABLED - DPM OFF - Northern Virginia - US
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)