aspiring user - rookie questions for streaming on a Expert (non Pro)

[docvale]

Hi everybody,

This is my first post on this forum!
I have been desiring a Devialet for a long while and now I'm finally looking to buy one. For budget reasons, I'd buy used and an Expert model, not a Pro.
I have a question related to the streaming capabilities of an Expert model (e.g., 120 or 200). I apologize in advance if the topic has already been covered in other threads. Please also take into consideration that this would be my first streaming setup, so apologies for the dumb questions.

My network would be set to use an old Airport Extreme, cabled via ethernet to my router. I would then connect the Devialet to the Airport via ethernet and plug an external HDD to the Airport via USB.

My understanding is that I would need to install the Air software on my main computer to stream either files stored in my networked drive or music from internet (whether it would be Spotify, Tidal or else I would see based on compatibility and features).

Now, the question: 
Would I be able to play a file from my HDD or from an internet provider, browsing libraries with an iPhone or iPad and keeping my main computer in standby?
If not, since the Expert (not Pro) series is considered Roon Ready (at least, based on the info published on the Roon website), would the use of Roon allow that?
Is the answer depending on the firmware of the machine?
Being forced to have my computer running would be an annoying thing and I really hope I could use the Devialet without the need to buy an extra device.

Thanks in advance for all the replies!

[zambie]

Welcome to the forums!
Please take whatever I say with a grain of salt - and I'll request other forum members to keep me honest here. Apologies in advance for anything I might state that might not be completely accurate.
A good starting point might be to read the following two pages:
https://www.devialet.com/en-us/amplifier...de-expert/
https://www.devialet.com/en-us/amplifier...-infinity/

I was under the impression that one gets the core infinity only in the pro and not the original experts. There are a number of forum members who have upgraded from expert to expert pro and might be able to speak more intelligently about how to make the expert work with your setup. But from my limited knowledge, I don't feel it's possible to play things like Roon on the Expert. You specifically need the Expert Pro for that. The various streaming capabilities get greatly enhanced through the pro upgrade.
you may find this interesting:
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/expert-...eady/91544

[thumb5]

First, let me explain the situation with Roon as clearly as possible.  The answer will depend on whether you have an Expert Pro with the Core Infinity board, or an Expert (or Pro) without Core Infinity.

If your amp has the Core Infinity board, then with the current firmware it is Roon Ready.  This means it supports Roon's Advanced Audio Transport (RAAT) protocol and can be used directly with Roon, without needing any drivers provided by Devialet.  (There are some other benefits of using RAAT including the ability to group with other zones using that protocol.)

If your amp doesn't have the Core Infinity board, then you can still use it with Roon but in that case it will use Devialet's AIR streaming protocol.  Roon has its own built-in support for Devialet AIR, so you still don't need to use Devialet's AIR driver, and in general using Roon's built-in AIR support seems to work more reliably in most situations.  Failing that you can install the Devialet AIR "virtual sound card" driver on the computer running the Roon Core software, and use that as the output device to talk to the amp.

Whenever you use Roon, in order to play music you need to have a computer running the Roon Core software.  Additionally you can use an iDevice (or another computer) to select what to play and control volume, etc.

To answer your original question, as far as I know if you have an original Expert, hence without the Core Infinity board, you will need a computer or other streaming device to "push" music from your Airport Extreme/disk to the Devialet.  Roon would be a good choice, assuming you're happy with its cost, if you already have a computer and are willing to leave it running to listen to music, but there are of course alternatives.  If you don't use Roon, you will need to use Devialet's AIR driver and can then use any music playback software capable of reading your files on the networked disc, choosing the AIR driver as the audio output device.

[David A]

A follow up to @thumb5 :

- In order to use Roon you have to have Roon software running on a computer but you can control Roon from it's remote app running on an iOS or Android device.

- If you connect an external HDD to the Airport via USB, you are going to have to use your main computer because that's the only device you've mentioned on which you can run the Roon software.

- You can avoid using your main computer by connecting another computer to the Airport. There are options here. One is to use something like a Raspberry Pi to which you connect the USB drive and run Roon on the Raspberry Pi. Another option is to use a music server which can run Roon. There are a lot of options here. Roon has its own Nucleus and Nucleus+ servers, there are a number of other options from manufacturers like Innuos and Antipodes which can run Roon and you can connect a USB drive or use an internal drive with them, and there are some NAS drives from QNAP and Synergy which can run Roon's ROCK operating system and Roon software. My experience is with a Roon Nucleus+ but I briefly used an older model Antipodes server prior to that. There's probably a lot of info available on Roon's site including in their user forums on setup and use of all of those options. Control of Roon in each case would be via Roon's remote app on an iOS or Android device.

If you don't want to use Roon for some reason, there are other options such as streaming devices to which you can add an external drive but Expert models and early Expert Pro models without the CI board have limitations on the streams they can accept. Running Devialet's own AIR software isn't an option on such devices and that means that you're likely to be limited to connecting to the Devialet via USB rather than ethernet and you may need to have your computer running as well. Just what you can do and how you connect to the Devialet is going to depend on the device you choose.

Based on my own experience when I started thinking about streaming, the biggest problem facing you at the start may well be just deciding how to go about it. One big decision concerns whether you want to have a large music library sourced from your own CDs which you rip and from downloaded files which you've purchased on your own drive or whether you are mostly going to stream from a service like Tidal or Qobuz or Spotify. The options I outlined above assume you're going to have a library of your own on a drive connected to your network. Things are a bit different if you're going to use a streaming service and it may well be possible to access some of them from an app on an iOS or Android device and have the service stream to your Devialet directly over your Airport ethernet connection. Alternatively, some of the streaming devices available can connect to one or more streaming services and have their own apps for control.

That question about whether you want to stream from files stored on your own drive, from a streaming service, or a mix of both is really the first thing I think you have to decide because that's the issue which really determines what sort of things you're going to have to connect to and run on your network or handheld device. Since you mentioned an Airport Extreme I assume your computer is a Mac. With a Mac you can stream to the Devialet from a drive connected to your Mac using iTunes and Devialet's AIR driver or use a free trial of Roon's software, and you can run software from a streaming service on the Mac and use the AIR driver as well. That's probably your simplest and cheapest starting point and relatively easy to get up and running. Once you're doing that you can try it for a few months and decide whether you want to stream from your own files as your major source, or stream from a streaming service as your major source, and once you've made that decision you're probably in a much better position to think about what software and hardware you want to use in the longer term.

[docvale]

Hi guys,

Thanks so much for taking the time to provide these explanations!
So, it seems that my dream to have a super essential setup is distant from reality. If I understood correctly, I indeed need a machine to be used as music server. What I was hoping for is to have something that works (at least, as far as I assume) as a Bluesound Node 2i: a device that, connected to the network, scans for music in HDDs and internet and is able to browse it. Instead, Roon or not, my understanding is that the streaming platform from the Devialet Expert (at least, the pre-CI generation) depends on a networked device.

The reason for me to be reluctant to use my own laptop as server is because I use it for all my non-business stuff, while I'd like something that also my wife (and my kids, in the near future) would be able to use regardless my use of the laptop. Also, I have Big Sur installed and, last night, I've learned that Air cannot be installed on Big Sur yet.

So, my options would be (from the most expensive to the cheapest):
- getting Roon and a Roon Core
- getting a Bluesound Node 2i and connect it to the Devialet via digital coaxial
- getting a used Mac Mini (pre-Big Sur), install Air and use it as a basic server, or connecting it to the Devialet via USB and remote controlling its Music app
- getting a Raspberry Pi, ethernet cabling it to the Airport, connecting it via USB to the Devialet and driving it via the Volumio

Am I missing something?

[thumb5]

A Sonos Port or the older Connect (aka ZP90) would also work nicely to provide a digital feed into the Devialet. Like the Bluesound Node they work without other computers, should be pretty much maintenance-free, and you could select and control playback using a phone app.

I used a modified Sonos Connect for a long time until Roon came along, and it worked faultlessly. My only reservation about that approach is that Sonos have now made the Connect obsolete so although you can probably pick one up for a song, it would have some software limitations. Also it supports only CD quality audio, if that's a concern.

[docvale]

A Sonos Port or the older Connect (aka ZP90) would also work nicely to provide a digital feed into the Devialet.  Like the Bluesound Node they work without other computers, should be pretty much maintenance-free, and you could select and control playback using a phone app.

I used a modified Sonos Connect for a long time until Roon came along, and it worked faultlessly.  My only reservation about that approach is that Sonos have now made the Connect obsolete so although you can probably pick one up for a song, it would have some software limitations.  Also it supports only CD quality audio, if that's a concern.

Thanks!

[David A]

Hi guys,

Thanks so much for taking the time to provide these explanations!
So, it seems that my dream to have a super essential setup is distant from reality. If I understood correctly, I indeed need a machine to be used as music server. What I was hoping for is to have something that works (at least, as far as I assume) as a Bluesound Node 2i: a device that, connected to the network, scans for music in HDDs and internet and is able to browse it. Instead, Roon or not, my understanding is that the streaming platform from the Devialet Expert (at least, the pre-CI generation) depends on a networked device.

The reason for me to be reluctant to use my own laptop as server is because I use it for all my non-business stuff, while I'd like something that also my wife (and my kids, in the near future) would be able to use regardless my use of the laptop. Also, I have Big Sur installed and, last night, I've learned that Air cannot be installed on Big Sur yet.

…

Am I missing something?

Whatever music you stream must come via a server BUT it only needs to be YOUR server if you are streaming your own files. If you're streaming from a service like Tidal/Qobuz, the files are streamed from Tidal's or Qobuz' server and you don't need a server, you just need something that can talk to their server.

In practice a lot of server software (eg Roon and others) and a lot of server hardware which may or may not be able to run Roon software, can talk to some streaming services such as Tidal/Qoobuz/Spotify so it's easy to assume that you need to have a server yourself but there are "network streaming devices" which can talk to streaming services and which aren't servers. If you are only going to stream from a streaming service and you don't want to maintain your own library of music files, you don't need a music server. Some of those devices can also provide a rudimentary interface to music stored on an attached USB drive or a drive attached to your network.

As I said, a primary question for you is whether you want to stream music from files on your own drives, whether you want to stream music from a streaming service, or whether you want to do both. If you only want to stream music from a streaming service such as Tidal or one of the other services, you don't need a server. You just need a device which can talk to the streaming service and, depending on the service or services you choose, that may require nothing more than an app on an iOS or Android device and having your Devialet connected to the same network that the iOS or Android device is connected to.

Many people want to stream at least some files of their own so they do need a server but if you can find all of the music you're interested in playing on a streaming service there is no need to have a server of your own because you're using the service's server. You just need a way of talking to that service and directing a stream from it to your Devialet. Much of the server software available lets you do both but you don't have to do both, you can choose to just use a streaming service, and if you make that choice then it is possible to do it without a server on your network. You just need a network streaming device which gives lets you input your account details for the streaming service and which also provides an interface for searching for and selecting music to play. There are devices available which just do that.

So, back to my big question which is where is your music going to come from, your own files, from a streaming service, or from a combination of both? That's the starting point for your decision making process.

[docvale]

Hi guys,

Thanks so much for taking the time to provide these explanations!
So, it seems that my dream to have a super essential setup is distant from reality. If I understood correctly, I indeed need a machine to be used as music server. What I was hoping for is to have something that works (at least, as far as I assume) as a Bluesound Node 2i: a device that, connected to the network, scans for music in HDDs and internet and is able to browse it. Instead, Roon or not, my understanding is that the streaming platform from the Devialet Expert (at least, the pre-CI generation) depends on a networked device.

The reason for me to be reluctant to use my own laptop as server is because I use it for all my non-business stuff, while I'd like something that also my wife (and my kids, in the near future) would be able to use regardless my use of the laptop. Also, I have Big Sur installed and, last night, I've learned that Air cannot be installed on Big Sur yet.

…

Am I missing something?

Whatever music you stream must come via a server BUT it only needs to be YOUR server if you are streaming your own files. If you're streaming from a service like Tidal/Qobuz, the files are streamed from Tidal's or Qobuz' server and you don't need a server, you just need something that can talk to their server.

In practice a lot of server software (eg Roon and others) and a lot of server hardware which may or may not be able to run Roon software, can talk to some streaming services such as Tidal/Qoobuz/Spotify so it's easy to assume that you need to have a server yourself but there are "network streaming devices" which can talk to streaming services and which aren't servers. If you are only going to stream from a streaming service and  you don't want to maintain your own library of music files, you don't need a music server. Some of those devices can also provide a rudimentary interface to music stored on an attached USB drive or a drive attached to your network.

As I said, a primary question for you is whether you want to stream music from files on your own drives, whether you want to stream music from a streaming service, or whether you want to do both. If you only want to stream music from a streaming service such as Tidal or one of the other services, you don't need a server. You just need a device which can talk to the streaming service and, depending on the service or services you choose, that may require nothing more than an app on an iOS or Android device and having your Devialet connected to the same network that the iOS or Android device is connected to.

Many people want to stream at least some files of their own so they do need a server but if you can find all of the music you're interested in playing on a streaming service there is no need to have a server of your own because you're using the service's server. You just need a way of talking to that service and directing a stream from it to your Devialet. Much of the server software available lets you do both but you don't have to do both, you can choose to just use a streaming service, and if you make that choice then it is possible to do it without a server on your network. You just need a network streaming device which gives lets you input your account details for the streaming service and which also provides an interface for searching for and selecting music to play. There are devices available which just do that.

So, back to my big question which is where is your music going to come from, your own files, from a streaming service, or from a combination of both? That's the starting point for your decision making process.

Hi David,

Sorry, I somehow overlooked your question.
The short answer is a bit of both, the actual situation is a tad more complex though.

My favorite way to listen to music is spinning records. I love the medium and the ritual, and I've done it for ~20 years, with two systems in Italy and with one since I moved to the USA. After becoming a parent, though, my chances to do that became less and less frequent and, indeed, over the past 7 years I might have collected just few hours of record playing.
I know that the Devialet approach to vinyl playback is a kind of heretic, with a double AD/DA conversion: I also think, though, that the logics of the approach, in particular at its price point, can provide high performance and do definitely better than my current, cheap phono stage*.

Regarding digital, I have a music file collection in Apple lossless format that would be networked, as I previously described. I'd like my system to be the family system, so that also my wife could enjoy that without too much hassle (which, considering her talent with electronics, would mean touching an icon on her phone...). I would access the digital files for some focused listening (time permitting) or to have full albums in playback while doing other stuff.
But I would also like to access streaming services to explore new music (maybe to be purchased in vinyl, ultimately) or to just have a radio for very distracted background entertainment.
My goal would be having the most streamlined system, without jumping from app to app to get the desired source.

I decided to buy, from a friend who's upgrading his system, a BlueSound Node 2i, to be able to browse files and streaming services with a single, user-friendly app. 
I would connect the Node via SPDIF to a Devialet, assuming I ended up sealing a deal, or I would use it as a full functioning digital source upstream of a traditional amplifier.

Thanks,

Valerio

*= I am aware the Devialet's phono stage disappoints with low output MC due to hiss, but, for now I would use my current MM and, even in the context of an upgrade, I do not see myself going low output without a SUT.

[thumb5]

That sounds like a good solution, Valerio.

Regarding the phono stage: some people using MC don't seem to find noise too much of a problem. Maybe theres's some unit-to-unit variation, or perhaps some people are more upset by it than others. Anyway, I just meant to say I wouldn't necessarily rule out using the phono stage with an MC cartridge before trying it.