iFi ZEN Stream

[Confused]

@confused: can you check if Roon via USB is still working if you select the Roon mode of the ifi ? I would like to know if it is only my device or a general issue.
As soon as I select mode 2 on the back of the ifi it only offers SPDIF in Roon...

Hello @Vivialet


   


Does this look familiar?

I identified the Zen in Roon, then I found this:


   

So it works in Roon only mode with the MC3+USB

I then tried connecting the Zen direct to the Devialet, and I can only get this:

   

So I can get it to work with the Mutec but not direct to the Devialet.

As to why, I have no idea. 

Does anyone else have any idea why this might be?

Or maybe try posting on the Roon forum in the Zen Stream thread? There are some fairly smart and experienced guys on there. A query to iFi might also be worthwhile.

[David A]

I've got no experience with the Zen BUT I think the following is what is going on.

What Roon's list of connections shows is a list of connections under Roon's control. That essentially means network connections (wifi or ethernet) and other connections such as USB/spdif/AES or analog outputs provided those other outputs are outputs available on the device running Roon Core. Roon can connect to your Devialet by wifi or ethernet so it shows those options. It does not show the Devialet as a USB option because the Devialet is not connected to the Roon Core device via USB. It is connected to the Zen via USB.

Try selecting the Zen as the Roon output option. Use the Devialet's remote to select USB as the active Devialet input. If you have to tell the Zen which of its outputs you wish to use then tell it to use the USB output the Devialet is connected to. It's up to the Zen to deal with its own output and the Devialet is not dealing with a Roon output, it's only seeing output from the Zen over USB. You need to tell the Devialet that you want to use its USB input just like you need to tell it whatever input you want it to use if you're selecting a disc player or an analog input. Roon simply does not see the Devialet's USB input because there is no network connection to the Devialet's USB input and if Roon can't see the input it will not appear in the list of outputs you can select in Roon. 

You cannot select a Devialet input from the Roon list of connections if that Devialet input is not connected to the Roon Core in some way. There is no connection between the Roon Core and the Devialet USB input if the Roon Core is connected to the Zen and the Zen is connected to the Devialet via USB. In fact with this connection setup the Devialet does not even receive the signal the Zen receives. The Zen is receiving a signal in packets, not in real time. What the Zen does is to unpack those packets, assemble a PCM audio signal from them, and send that signal to the Devialet in real time. There is no signal connection between the Devialet and the Roon Core. Roon's output in this case is to the Zen, not to the Devialet. You can't select Zen outputs in the Roon list, only Roon outputs. That's why you aren't seeing the Devialet's USB input as one of the available outputs in the Roon list.

[Confused]

Hi @David A

Actually, these "network end point" devices do not work quite like that, they are curious things.

If you check the Roon screenshots in my earlier post, you will see the option to select "MC3+ Smart clock USB" is listed. In this screenshot the Mutec MC3 it is selected and is actually playing music, this works. Also note that the Mutec MC3+USB is not connected to Roon or my PC, it is connected to the Zen.

The connection scenario here is PC RAAT Ethernet to the Zen, then Zen USB to the Mutec. So Roon is recognising the MC3 as a connected USB device, even though Roon is physically connected via the iFi Zen Stream.

With the Devialet connected to the Zen rather than the MC3 - it then does not work. It works for the Mutec, but not the Devialet, everything else is identical. So I think this is some kind of USB handshake issue between the Zen and the Devialet.

Note that if you connect the Zen to the Devialet via S/PDIF, it works just fine. With USB the Devialet does not work with the Zen, but a different USB device works perfectly.

So this is a Devialet or Zen USB handshake or protocol issue, or at least this is what I suspect, I am not an expert. But quite what the issue is exactly and how to solve it, I do not know.

Also note that in my case there is no issue with the Devialet's USB connection, or at least it works fine if connected directly to my PC, this is the connection method that I used when performing my Focus Fidelity measurements.

Does anyone know is there are any subtleties with Devialet's USB protocol or handshake requirements?

[Vivialet]

Hi Confused,
Thankts for checking this. This is exactly what I see in Roon if I select the Roon only mode on the Zen. If I select the all-in-one mode I can correctly select the Devialet USB input. This only disappears in the Roon only mode.
Btw the SPDIF output does sound worse than USB and also has dropouts. I use Roon for upsampling to PCM max x2, so 176 or 192 khz. 192 is mainly working, but 176 is having lots of dropouts. I have opened a ticket for this.
Only usable path for me is currently mode 1 of the Zen with USB.

[Confused]

Hi Confused,
Thankts for checking this. This is exactly what I see in Roon if I select the Roon only mode on the Zen. If I select the all-in-one mode I can correctly select the Devialet USB input. This only disappears in the Roon only mode.
Btw the SPDIF output does sound worse than USB and also has dropouts. I use Roon for upsampling to PCM max x2, so 176 or 192 khz. 192 is mainly working, but 176 is having lots of dropouts. I have opened a ticket for this.
Only usable path for me is currently mode 1 of the Zen with USB.

It is frustrating that you get these dropouts in Roon mode. The one thing I like about the Zen is that for me it has been 100% stable and drop out free, but this is specifically in NAA mode at 24/192.

If you are interested, I can try mine in Roon mode, S/PDIF, 176.4, and see if I can replicate the issue. This is easy enough for me to try, and I know that when I have had similar issues in the past it is always good to know that the issue is common and not "just me". (Just me is always a worry!)

[David A]

@Confused,

Interesting (it's amazing how useful that word is to convey confusion at the vagaries and inconsistencies of things like this).

I was basing my comments on my memories of connecting my then 130 Pro by USB to an Antipodes server running Roon Core. I can remember having to select a USB output on the Antipodes and having to use the Devialet remote to switch to the 130 Pro's USB input. I can't remember ever seeing the Devialet itself in the Roon list but that's a memory from 5 years ago now and I've only been using an ethernet connection for well over 4 years now.

Obviously something funny is going on with the Devialet-Zen USB connection that isn't going on with the Mutec-Zen connection. I have no idea what that might be but I would think the problem is at the Devialet end of the handshake. If the connection to the Mutec shows in Roon then the Zen and Mutec are obviously behaving the way Roon expects devices to handle USB connections. That suggests that any problem with the USB connection between the Zen and the Devialet lies at the Devialet end of the handshake.

[Vivialet]

I don't think that it is a Devialet issue as it is working fine if the all-in-one mode of the Zen is selected. It is only not working if the Roon exclusive mode on the Zen is activated. It seems they forget to load some required driver in this mode which is maybe not required for the Mutec.

[markush]

Yes this could be the case.
Interesting to hear if @Confused is having SPDIF dropouts too or things are fine.

[Vivialet]

I checked with no upsampling at all and also with upsampling to only 88/96 KHz. No issues then it seems...only high sampling frequencies seem to have a problem.
Btw, I found an ifi iPurifier 2 which I tested on the Devialet side. I think this is giving a slight improvement.

[markush]

As mentioned here it’s quite sad actually to see that a device like the ZS improves considerably the audio performance as exactly that is expected to be provided by the CI / streaming module inside the Expert.
The thing that wonders me and I guess many is the reason behind this an inferior software by Devialet or any other reason?