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Full Version: Phono Amps and/or SUT
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I have been enjoying an Ortofon Cadenza Black and a Dynavector DRT XV-1s cartridges through the Devialet and I believe Devialet does a great job of handling these two low voltage cartridges.  I've read Leigh Hibbins post on ripping and think I might give it a try. 

The first thing is to follow his suggestion on a SUT and for that I've ordered Graham Slee Elevator EXP with the PSU1.  I pick it up on Saturday.  

1) does anyone know what I config the Devialet for?  Currently I use the RCA inputs set as phono and either run a config for the Ortofon or the Dynavector.  

What would I be setting the RCA inputs once the Graham Slee is installed? 

Any comments on the Graham Slee vs others?  I've had Pass Labs Xono and Trichord's Diablo and they are both pretty good but not in front of the Devialet.  Suggestions on what I might hear differently from native connection?

Jim
(27-Jan-2017, 05:31)Jim_Anderson Wrote: [ -> ]I have been enjoying an Ortofon Cadenza Black and a Dynavector DRT XV-1s cartridges through the Devialet and I believe Devialet does a great job of handling these two low voltage cartridges.  I've read Leigh Hibbins post on ripping and think I might give it a try. 

The first thing is to follow his suggestion on a SUT and for that I've ordered Graham Slee Elevator EXP with the PSU1.  I pick it up on Saturday.  

1) does anyone know what I config the Devialet for?  Currently I use the RCA inputs set as phono and either run a config for the Ortofon or the Dynavector.  

What would I be setting the RCA inputs once the Graham Slee is installed? 

Any comments on the Graham Slee vs others?  I've had Pass Labs Xono and Trichord's Diablo and they are both pretty good but not in front of the Devialet.  Suggestions on what I might hear differently from native connection?

Jim
I don't know for sure but I thought you set up as if for MM. I think they have a forum, probably worth asking there.

I'm interested in the elevator, I'm not aware of a similar active SUT replacement product. Would like to hear about your results.
(27-Jan-2017, 05:31)Jim_Anderson Wrote: [ -> ]I have been enjoying an Ortofon Cadenza Black and a Dynavector DRT XV-1s cartridges through the Devialet and I believe Devialet does a great job of handling these two low voltage cartridges.  I've read Leigh Hibbins post on ripping and think I might give it a try. 

The first thing is to follow his suggestion on a SUT and for that I've ordered Graham Slee Elevator EXP with the PSU1.  I pick it up on Saturday.  

1) does anyone know what I config the Devialet for?  Currently I use the RCA inputs set as phono and either run a config for the Ortofon or the Dynavector.  

What would I be setting the RCA inputs once the Graham Slee is installed? 

Any comments on the Graham Slee vs others?  I've had Pass Labs Xono and Trichord's Diablo and they are both pretty good but not in front of the Devialet.  Suggestions on what I might hear differently from native connection?

Jim

The Elevator is not a SUT it is a powered pre-preamp so not really needed with a Devialet which already has one built in.
(27-Jan-2017, 14:06)f1eng Wrote: [ -> ]The Elevator is not a SUT it is a powered pre-preamp so not really needed with a Devialet which already has one built in.
is the suggestion then no sonic benefit can be derived from adding in the Elevator EXP?  I certainly do not wish to add in a new piece to the chain that doesn't add more to the musicality.  

I may still try it as I don't know what I'm missing but if I can avoid the $1500+ expense of the Graham and for connections, then that is definitely a good thing. 

If others have benefited from adding in a reasonably good phono stage, I would love to hear what yo feel you gained from it.

Jim
(27-Jan-2017, 17:16)Jim_Anderson Wrote: [ -> ]
(27-Jan-2017, 14:06)f1eng Wrote: [ -> ]The Elevator is not a SUT it is a powered pre-preamp so not really needed with a Devialet which already has one built in.
is the suggestion then no sonic benefit can be derived from adding in the Elevator EXP?  I certainly do not wish to add in a new piece to the chain that doesn't add more to the musicality.  

I may still try it as I don't know what I'm missing but if I can avoid the $1500+ expense of the Graham and for connections, then that is definitely a good thing. 

If others have benefited from adding in a reasonably good phono stage, I would love to hear what yo feel you gained from it.

Jim

I can see no reason for the Elevator to improve the sound unless it adds some euphonic distortion you like. I have tried my Devialet using a Goldmund PH2 phono stage which was state of the art (and price) when available. I would say it sounded fine but the inbuilt phono stage in the Devialet is the simplest, most accurate and adjustable for matching solution if you are using a Devialet amp IMO.
I use an Ortofon T3000 step up transformer with my Ortofon A90 cartridge since I own it and it is perhaps a touch quieter when properly earthed (adds a huge amount of hum if not) but I have used it straight in too, but only on my old D-Premier when the phono stage had much less adjustability.
IMO musicality is the responsibility of the musicians, not the hifi Smile
IME when hifi enthusiasts go on about musicality in equipment it is usually means it is adding euphonic distortion which they like more than the unadulterated reproduction of the recording.
(27-Jan-2017, 17:16)Jim_Anderson Wrote: [ -> ]
(27-Jan-2017, 14:06)f1eng Wrote: [ -> ]The Elevator is not a SUT it is a powered pre-preamp so not really needed with a Devialet which already has one built in.
is the suggestion then no sonic benefit can be derived from adding in the Elevator EXP?  I certainly do not wish to add in a new piece to the chain that doesn't add more to the musicality.  

I may still try it as I don't know what I'm missing but if I can avoid the $1500+ expense of the Graham and for connections, then that is definitely a good thing. 

If others have benefited from adding in a reasonably good phono stage, I would love to hear what yo feel you gained from it.

Jim

I think it could improve the sound, but it is far from certain it will.  

Do you have more hiss than you think is possible right now?  If so it might help there.
Does it have loading options the built in phono stage does not?

Matching phono stages to cartridges is sort of required, but the built in stage is so adjustable these days we effectively have a lot of different equalisation curves to play with.

I would not spend money on this without a home loan first.
(27-Jan-2017, 17:49)f1eng Wrote: [ -> ]
(27-Jan-2017, 17:16)Jim_Anderson Wrote: [ -> ]
(27-Jan-2017, 14:06)f1eng Wrote: [ -> ]The Elevator is not a SUT it is a powered pre-preamp so not really needed with a Devialet which already has one built in.
is the suggestion then no sonic benefit can be derived from adding in the Elevator EXP?  I certainly do not wish to add in a new piece to the chain that doesn't add more to the musicality.  

I may still try it as I don't know what I'm missing but if I can avoid the $1500+ expense of the Graham and for connections, then that is definitely a good thing. 

If others have benefited from adding in a reasonably good phono stage, I would love to hear what yo feel you gained from it.

Jim

I can see no reason for the Elevator to improve the sound unless it adds some euphonic distortion you like. I have tried my Devialet using a Goldmund PH2 phono stage which was state of the art (and price) when available. I would say it sounded fine but the inbuilt phono stage in the Devialet is the simplest, most accurate and adjustable for matching solution if you are using a Devialet amp IMO.
I use an Ortofon T3000 step up transformer with my Ortofon A90 cartridge since I own it and it is perhaps a touch quieter when properly earthed (adds a huge amount of hum if not) but I have used it straight in too, but only on my old D-Premier when the phono stage had much less adjustability.
IMO musicality is the responsibility of the musicians, not the hifi Smile
IME when hifi enthusiasts go on about musicality in equipment it is usually means it is adding euphonic distortion which they like more than the unadulterated reproduction of the recording.

Very valid points f1eng.  looks like I'm over thinking this.  As mention in my original post I find no fault with the current direct connection for either cartridge.  Having had phono amps on all my previous systems, possibly its a carry over, thinking the demand of gain of 65-70db is asking to much and the install of an intermediate, is desireable.  

I'm taking away from this dialogue little will be had from this enterprise.  I definitely can direct the funds to other more useful enterprises. Thank you f1eng.
f1eng is of course correct, the Graham Slee Elevator EXP is a powered pre-preamp, and the Devialet already has a configurable powered pre-amp as an integral part of the built in phono stage.  However, I do not think this is the full story.  Whilst the Devilaet phono stage is excellent, and arguably the most accurate phono stage possible, it is flawed.  A number of users have reported audible hiss when used with low output MC cartridges.  In addition, some users have reported improvements when using a SUT in the chain.  Graham Slee describe the Elevator EXP as an 'MC Step-up Amplifier'.  So it is a kind of solid state mimic of the function of a SUT.

Personally, I see no reason why something as simple as the Graham Slee Elevator EXP should add much in the way of distortion, less so any euphonic distortion.  Although it is another item in the audio chain, this is a bad thing, but considering the hiss produced by the Devialet phono stage, I cannot see that the 'built-in' powered pre-amp is working optimally with MC cartridges.  If it was it wouldn't hiss!

So I can see a scenario in which something like the Graham Slee would indeed offer a genuine sound quality improvement, providing enough gain so that the Devialet phono stage is working in it's optimum range and hence hiss free, there could be all sorts of subtle things going on here.  The question is, what is the best solution?  In effect the Graham Slee performs the same task as an SUT via a different technology.  Which is best?  Both add a potentially unnecessary item and extra cable into the audio chain, so is the Devialet phono stage still the best on it's own with no SUT or anything else?  I also wonder if the method of providing the cartridge loading with the Graham Slee is any different to using the Devialet alone, thinking this one through, I suspect not.

I have to declare that I have never tried an SUT or a powered pre-amp.  I have tried alternative phono stages, the best of which was a Tom Evans Groove, which after much A/B testing I found to be inferior to the Devialet's offering.  (This was with a low output Ortofon Cadenza Black)  So all I know from my experience is that the Devialet phono stage performs to a very high level, hiss or not.  I suspect the Devialet phono stage could be improved with an SUT or powered pre-amp, but this is just conjecture.  Trying an SUT is on my audio 'to do' list, but I have to say it is quite a long way down the list at the moment, too little free time and many other things planned!  Having said that, I would love to try the Graham Slee vs a decent SUT vs the Devialet phono stage alone, this would be fascinating, but would take a bit of organising to do properly.

EDIT:  I noticed this on the 'net re the Graham Slee; "Unlike a step up transformer hum cannot be induced into it, and it's far more linear making for a tighter bass response." 

OK, I get the bit about hum, this is clear.  However, this statement suggests an SUT is not fully linear?  Is there any truth in this?
Just to update this thread, I just set up an Ortofon Cadenza Black direct into the phono input using the configurator’s default settings for the cartridge and have absolutely no hiss at normal listening levels. Sounds pretty good with the appropriate vinyl. 

Amp is the 440 EP CI with the latest v.12 SW