(23-May-2015, 21:38)Antoine Wrote:

(23-May-2015, 21:19)runlonger Wrote: Congratulation TriggerHappy. I like your scientific approach. I also thought subjectively that changes are very small, almost impossible to hear between the firmware. At least with SAM disabled.

Small changes? Up to a 3dB reduction is not small!

Did you get the point he made? This sentence is key: "However, in 8.0.0, ICM (Intelligent Cinema Mode) is defaulted to ON and you are most likely hearing its effects as shown below when you load 8.0.0 and a config file created under the "new" Configurator."

(23-May-2015, 21:45)runlonger Wrote:

(23-May-2015, 21:38)Antoine Wrote:

(23-May-2015, 21:19)runlonger Wrote: Congratulation TriggerHappy. I like your scientific approach. I also thought subjectively that changes are very small, almost impossible to hear between the firmware. At least with SAM disabled.

Small changes? Up to a 3dB reduction is not small!

Did you get the point he made? This sentence is key: "However, in 8.0.0, ICM (Intelligent Cinema Mode) is defaulted to ON and you are most likely hearing its effects as shown below when you load 8.0.0 and a config file created under the "new" Configurator."

Yes, I did get his point. I have a button configured for ICM (so I know when it is on) and I have stated back at my post Nr. 273 (did you bother to read it?) that the change between ICM on and off is very clearly heard!

(23-May-2015, 21:48)Antoine Wrote:

(23-May-2015, 21:45)runlonger Wrote:

(23-May-2015, 21:38)Antoine Wrote:

(23-May-2015, 21:19)runlonger Wrote: Congratulation TriggerHappy. I like your scientific approach. I also thought subjectively that changes are very small, almost impossible to hear between the firmware. At least with SAM disabled.

Small changes? Up to a 3dB reduction is not small!

Did you get the point he made? This sentence is key: "However, in 8.0.0, ICM (Intelligent Cinema Mode) is defaulted to ON and you are most likely hearing its effects as shown below when you load 8.0.0 and a config file created under the "new" Configurator."

Yes, I did get his point. I have a button configured for ICM (so I know when it is on) and I have stated back at my post Nr. 273 (did you bother to read it?) that the change between ICM on and off is very clearly heard!

Yes I read it but I didn't assign a button for ICM and I now read that it is on by default and always! This of course can't be right and for sure is not the way Devialet meant it to be.

(23-May-2015, 22:03)Rob35 Wrote: Is there any information about what ICM does? It seems to be acting on compression/limiting of the incoming signal. When comparing on and off settings when watching a movie the reduction in dynamic range is not subtle so compression settings seem to be quite extreme. If this also happens to music when it is on by default this is not good. Most people who are not happy with firmware 8.0 don't seem to complain however about dynamic range being reduced but more about music sounding more digital/harsh. So this is not likely to be the full explanation.

(23-May-2015, 22:08)Antoine Wrote: Hi Rob, I agree, although I did see people mentioning 8.0 sounding less open or even muffled/muddy.

The only information on ICM I know of is in the Configurator's help: "Intelligent Cinema Mode : Activates the Intelligent Cinema Mode. This mode optimizes the dynamics of the incoming audio content, allowing you to enjoy your favourite films without having to make any compromise on experience or power."


To be sure I've prepared new config files and I am going to verify Triggrhappy's measurements tomorrow or Monday. I'm also a REW user.

PS. Although I am personally not really interested in the results I will "help" runlonger as well doing some power usage comparisons with DPM enabled and disabled, my PS Audio P3 displays power usage so this is easy for me.

(19-May-2015, 23:31)NickB Wrote:

(19-May-2015, 23:05)Confused Wrote:

(19-May-2015, 22:35)Hifi_swlon Wrote: 8 configs don't seem backwards compatible. I keep all mine but I'd left the 8 one on there and 7.1.1 didn't like it and forced factory defaults.

Again, not really very tidily done - all a bit rushed if you ask me. It doesnt take long to get a reputation as a company that releases half baked things. I do hope Devialet stop the trend soon.

This is an interesting point.  So it looks like if you prefer 7.1.1 or 7.1.3 (what happened to 7.1.2?), then basically you are stuck with any configurations you have saved on SD cards or your computer.  That is, if you try to make a revised configuration on the "V8" configurator, then this won't work with 7.1.1.  So no tweaking phono stage settings for a new cartridge etc.  This seems a bit odd, and what about D Premier users, who can't use all the new V8 toys anyway?

Regards to all this being rushed, I have to agree.  It seams to be all "no sleep 'till Munich" for Devialet. Ok, they got all this new stuff released on time, but there appears to be very little information on the website explaining the new features and options (such as implications of enabling or disabling the power management), just a bunch of TLA's.  The only real information I've seen is from the users of this forum, based in no small part on trial and error.  So a very well done to the many who posted good information here, and poor show Devialet.

We don't think that the rushing would have anything to do with the constant moaning on this forum about the expert series being forgotten - the only development is on the Phantom - we spent all this money and they have forgotten us - we haven't had an update for ages etc etc etc and on and on and on and on !!!!!

And then when they do everyone moans about the fact that they have been given an update but they are incapable of copying a few files to a memory card and plugging it into the machine. Not sure how much training you need to do that.

If I was them I would give up the whole thing and leave you all with your completely useless amps. Oh no wait a minute they still are the best sounding amps you can get aren't they.

By the way no one has actually said that there was a change in sound from 7.1.1 to 7.1.3 it was assumed and is probably as real as the differences between usb cables.

(23-May-2015, 22:12)runlonger Wrote:

(23-May-2015, 22:03)Rob35 Wrote: Is there any information about what ICM does? It seems to be acting on compression/limiting of the incoming signal. When comparing on and off settings when watching a movie the reduction in dynamic range is not subtle so compression settings seem to be quite extreme. If this also happens to music when it is on by default this is not good. Most people who are not happy with firmware 8.0 don't seem to complain however about dynamic range being reduced but more about music sounding more digital/harsh. So this is not likely to be the full explanation.

As far as I know not officially. My guess is that the Devialet somehow is able detect dynamically if there is a voice or not. When they detect the voice the signal stays the same (at least I could not hear any changes in my experiment sample), but when there is no voice the higher frequencies are reduced, hence quieter. So I think its not a compression while playing voices, but I am not sure. The effect is certainly dynamic and dependent on the content.

(23-May-2015, 21:28)Antoine Wrote:

(23-May-2015, 20:26)Triggrhappy01 Wrote: I took some REW measurements of 7.1.1, 7.1.3b and 8.0.0.  With SAM defeated, and ICM defeated in 8.0.0, there is no significant difference between the three.  Any variation can be attributed to measurement error.




However, in 8.0.0, ICM (Intelligent Cinema Mode) is defaulted to ON and you are most likely hearing its effects as shown below when you load 8.0.0 and a config file created under the "new" Configurator.



As far as I can tell, there is no way to defeat ICM from the configurator - meaning the only way to turn it off is to map the "ICM on/off" function to a remote button and then manually defeat it.  It seems to be a smooth, subtle downward tilt toward the high frequencies, approx. 1dB down at 1 KHz, 2dB down at 10 KHz, and 3dB down at 20 KHz according to the graphs.  The hinge point appears to be around 100-150 Hz.  Note that ICM seems to adjusted dynamically depending on volume, and this represents only a single volume setting.


(Expert 200 was at level of -18 for all measurements.  KEF LS50s are on loan and it's unknown if they are fully broken in.  UMIK and latest REW version for OS X.  Except for the "ICM on/off" remote control mapping, the same config file was used for all FW versions - downloaded 5/17 using the new Configurator.  The overall measurement level is low but all measurements were made under the same conditions.  FW version measurements taken approx. 30min apart.  DPM was on during all 8.0.0 measurements.  Room is 12x20 and reflective.  Speakers are along the long wall, microphone approx. 8ft from each speaker.)

Wow, this is brilliant, thank you!!!

If I understand you correctly ICM is always on with FW 8.0 unless you manually defeat it. If correct then Devialet has screwed up big time...again... 

Indeed there's no way to disable it in the configurator, nor is the setting currently stored in the config file. It's like the 'polarity invert' setting which also can't be found there but is only a running parameter with a certain default. So we're indeed forced to assign a button for it to disable it manually.