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+--- Thread: Iconoclast speaker cables (/Thread-Iconoclast-speaker-cables)
RE: Iconoclast speaker cables - Manoet - 12-Jul-2015
Good! And if my analogy drew your ire I suspect others will also see the sheer hypocrisy of the act. Beyond that I won't debate cable values with you beyond perhaps to say I find your notion that only a "few hear the differences" might be a tad short of the mark... but just a L-O-T!!! More aptly in this day & age, only a 'few' if any, might not! But heck if you think wire clothes hangers and lamp cords are fine as cables/interconnects its no skin off my nose.
RE: Iconoclast speaker cables - f1eng - 13-Jul-2015
(12-Jul-2015, 20:20)Alicata Wrote:(12-Jul-2015, 18:28)f1eng Wrote:Honestly, the thought that there is no technical reason to spend any extra money on cables because there is no sound difference between them is exactly how these cables came about. Do what the original poster did. Borrow some nice cables and hook them up to your system and listen to the difference. The designer of the cables the OP is taking about had the same attitude. Then he designed his cables. He has some amazing stories about other cable designers also. If you have a devialet and a nicely set up system, I think you will hear a difference. If all you do is drive a GT-3 through city traffic, you may have no idea how well the car can perform.(12-Jul-2015, 15:13)Manoet Wrote: I personally find it tantamount to purchasing aftermarket 6" X 13" bias ply h-rated tires & wheels for a new GT-3.
Yes, but as a person who has spent a small part of my career in noise and vibration research including designing my own transducers, but most of it designing and running racing cars I know of clear, obvious and valid reasons why fitting bias ply low speed rated tyres to a GT3 would be stupid and dangerous.
But there is absolutely no technical reason why spending more than £50 on speaker cables is anything other than stark staring bonkers.
It seems a few people hear differences and feel the need to spend a fortune on what can be done for a few quid, which is fair enough, it is their money.
But your analogy is completely and absolutely wrong, I'm afraid, it is in no way tantamount to putting dangerously unsuitable tyres on a car.
Sorry for the rant but bad analogies are a bugbear of mine, and this is very, very bad.
I did an extensive blind comparison between cables quite a few years ago, both interconnects and speaker cables. The only ones I could pick out consistently were the MIT speaker cables with filter boxes on. They were the most expensive ones I tried. The ones that all sounded the same varied from £20 to almost as expensive as the MITs.
It could be just expectation bias in both our cases. I don't expect a difference since I can't think of any reason how there possibly could be one (except with filters, which constitute a component rather than a connection in my book) and you do expect one since they are "nice" cables.
RE: Iconoclast speaker cables - f1eng - 13-Jul-2015
(12-Jul-2015, 20:31)Manoet Wrote: Good! And if my analogy drew your ire I suspect others will also see the sheer hypocrisy of the act. Beyond that I won't debate cable values with you beyond perhaps to say I find your notion that only a "few hear the differences" might be a tad short of the mark... but just a L-O-T!!! More aptly in this day & age, only a 'few' if any, might not! But heck if you think wire clothes hangers and lamp cords are fine as cables/interconnects its no skin off my nose.
I was annoyed since I am a tyre specialist and your analogy was about as wrong a one as could be imagined by a tyre specialist.
I didn't mention coat hangers or lamp chord. What I have found is that a properly terminated and properly engineered for purpose cable is all that is needed. The quality of the connection is important, but is not expensive to do properly. Speaker cables need appropriate CLR characteristics for the current and amp stability in use. Again, good engineering needs not be expensive.
In the case of how many people can hear differences between cables, apart from a few audiophile extremists and dealers none IME.
One of the things I shall be listening to on Wednesday at the OAC Phantom day are due to be cables, I believe. Maybe something has changed since I last did a proper comparison, though a dealer open day is not a proper time for worthwhile comparison.
RE: Iconoclast speaker cables - completeluxury - 13-Jul-2015
F1eng made a good point though i believe. cable geometry is very important.
I also think the connector is a big part of it.
for instance - while i dont think id spend 4000 on speaker cables again, i wall mounted my devialets over the weekend and my speakers cables with banana plugs dont fall out of the terminals even though its got to be at least half a kilo of weight pulling on the banana plugs. thats a great connection in my books!
the only part of f1's post i dont agree with is "good engineering needs not be expensive". while not a false statement im sure good engineering of cable geometry etc could be done cheap i just dont know anyone who doesnt charge appropriately.
RE: Iconoclast speaker cables - Manoet - 13-Jul-2015
An incredibly nice feature of the F'tech CF-series speaker bananas and coax/RCA adapters is they can be loosened or tightened. Loosen to remove or install then tighten when fully seated... all by hand, no tools necessary. All CF series adapters have a threaded collar/sleeve assembly that the CF body tightens around the OD of the RCA/coax jack and the speaker bananas use a threaded CF body collar that threads a pin up/down thru the center of the cross-cut banana plug expanding it after fully seated in the binding post. When I first saw these at shows around the country 6-7 years ago the F'tech reps were installing them then swinging small components around over their heads by the cables. Yes, they hold fast when tightened tho no way I'd attempt lassoing with my gear. Yours maybe but not mine ;-) I do suspect each cable adapter when fully tightened capable of holding probably +/- 20-30 pounds pretty easily.
RE: Iconoclast speaker cables - Rufus McDufus - 14-Jul-2015
Last 2 posts deleted as they didn't really add to the thread...
RE: Iconoclast speaker cables - IanG-UK - 14-Jul-2015
There is a chance that this thread, on a largely unheard of loudspeaker cable, turns into a debate on whether well engineered cables sound the same or different.
Which would, in my opinion, be futile since these debates have run for years on established fora like HiFi Wigwam, Pink Fish, What's Best Forum, ... , and have reached the same range of conclusions.
I'm happy that some of us spend large amounts of money on cables and some of us spend little in the belief that well engineered cables are all that is needed. I've fallen into both camps.
Whilst I note what Alicata says "Honestly, the thought that there is no technical reason to spend any extra money on cables because there is no sound difference between them is exactly how these cables came about.", I would amend/append the words to read "... because there is no sound difference between them is possibly how these cables came about ... or possibly because manufacturers/retailers see a hugely profitable marketing opportunity in this area".
And I cannot remember any publicly declared blind listening tests on cables which show significantly significant discrimination results, in the last 20 years, which might indicate something. But not necessarily everything.
RE: Iconoclast speaker cables - f1eng - 14-Jul-2015
(13-Jul-2015, 23:04)completeluxury Wrote: the only part of f1's post i dont agree with is "good engineering needs not be expensive". while not a false statement im sure good engineering of cable geometry etc could be done cheap i just dont know anyone who doesnt charge appropriately.
I was taught that an engineer is somebody who can do for five bob what any d*mn' fool could do for £5
I guess that doesn't work too well in an environment where more expensive is automatically assumed to be better though.
It doesn't need to be expensive.
RE: Iconoclast speaker cables - f1eng - 14-Jul-2015
(14-Jul-2015, 17:52)Rufus McDufus Wrote: Last 2 posts deleted as they didn't really add to the thread...
and post 44 did?
RE: Iconoclast speaker cables - Rufus McDufus - 14-Jul-2015
(14-Jul-2015, 18:01)f1eng Wrote:(14-Jul-2015, 17:52)Rufus McDufus Wrote: Last 2 posts deleted as they didn't really add to the thread...
and post 44 did?
I agree. Gone.