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+--- Thread: AIR 3 Beta for Mac (/Thread-AIR-3-Beta-for-Mac)
RE: AIR 3 Beta for Mac - Duomike - 20-May-2016
shouldn't wifi into dev sound better (if it works stable) than a wired ethernet connection? reason I'm asking because at least theoretically all these routers are noisy using cheap switching supplies. all this noise can travel via a wired connection to the dev. or am I missing something?
RE: AIR 3 Beta for Mac - f1eng - 20-May-2016
(20-May-2016, 07:20)Duomike Wrote: shouldn't wifi into dev sound better (if it works stable) than a wired ethernet connection? reason I'm asking because at least theoretically all these routers are noisy using cheap switching supplies. all this noise can travel via a wired connection to the dev. or am I missing something?
That would be my expectation too, though the wireless connection no longer works here, with minimal signal even with the wireless access point sitting on the window over the ariel...
RE: AIR 3 Beta for Mac - Rufus McDufus - 20-May-2016
I use a wireless dongle (TP-Link) in the back of my Melco ('LAN' ethernet port), which is then connected via ethernet via its 'Player' ethernet port to the Devialet. I'm convinced that sounds better than an ethernet connection from LAN to Melco. I tried the wi-fi dongle straight in the back of the Devialet though and it didn't seem to make any audible difference for some reason.
I can't get Devialet wi-fi to work at all - dropouts all the time even a few inches from the access point, but the cheap wi-fi dongle works perfectly even with the access point in a different room.
RE: AIR 3 Beta for Mac - Hifi_swlon - 20-May-2016
(20-May-2016, 07:20)Duomike Wrote: shouldn't wifi into dev sound better (if it works stable) than a wired ethernet connection? reason I'm asking because at least theoretically all these routers are noisy using cheap switching supplies. all this noise can travel via a wired connection to the dev. or am I missing something?
Duomike, I don't think you'll get a straight answer on this - have a look through any computer audio threads on forums - it comes up all the time and there's a huge amount of discussion out there.
My take on it is if you believe in the idea that there is a digital data delivery issue that affects some or all DACs, you kind of have to believe in all of it. The recurring theory here seems to be that wifi receivers are themselves pretty noisy devices and have to work hard, and therefore despite offering better galvanic isolation potential compared to wired ethernet, the internal noise they create outweighs it, as this noise also makes its way into the DAC.
Personally I ebb and flow in my own belief - my technical background tells me it shouldn't matter, the reality of listening means it probably does, and then the fact that our brain/hearing system can deceive us then leads back to doubt and uncertainty.
At the end of the day the most reliable connection that gives you the most enjoyment of the music is surely the best one.
RE: AIR 3 Beta for Mac - Duomike - 20-May-2016
(20-May-2016, 09:30)Hifi_swlon Wrote:this sounds like a very wise answer! when trying AIR3 will use a direct ethernet connection between mini and dev cause I don't have any router. if I manage to get it to work will invest in a high end lan cable. is there something like a jitterbug available for lan ports?(20-May-2016, 07:20)Duomike Wrote: shouldn't wifi into dev sound better (if it works stable) than a wired ethernet connection? reason I'm asking because at least theoretically all these routers are noisy using cheap switching supplies. all this noise can travel via a wired connection to the dev. or am I missing something?
Duomike, I don't think you'll get a straight answer on this - have a look through any computer audio threads on forums - it comes up all the time and there's a huge amount of discussion out there.
My take on it is if you believe in the idea that there is a digital data delivery issue that affects some or all DACs, you kind of have to believe in all of it. The recurring theory here seems to be that wifi receivers are themselves pretty noisy devices and have to work hard, and therefore despite offering better galvanic isolation potential compared to wired ethernet, the internal noise they create outweighs it, as this noise also makes its way into the DAC.
Personally I ebb and flow in my own belief - my technical background tells me it shouldn't matter, the reality of listening means it probably does, and then the fact that our brain/hearing system can deceive us then leads back to doubt and uncertainty.
At the end of the day the most reliable connection that gives you the most enjoyment of the music is surely the best one.
RE: AIR 3 Beta for Mac - Hifi_swlon - 20-May-2016
(20-May-2016, 10:17)Duomike Wrote: this sounds like a very wise answer! when trying AIR3 will use a direct ethernet connection between mini and dev cause I don't have any router. if I manage to get it to work will invest in a high end lan cable. is there something like a jitterbug available for lan ports?
I would suggest, if you get it to work, stick with whatever cable you have to hand and enjoy it! Okay that's slightly facetious as I've experimented with USB cables and have convinced myself I can hear a subtle difference, but all cables are a rip off IMO as even if they do work they certainly don't justify the cost. Many microRendu (and other) US users are reporting good results from cat6a cables from bluejeans in the US, which are hand made and apparently well screened, come with a test certificate and reasonably priced. Something like that might be a good start.
You really only need a simple 4 port switch (rather than router) - you can get a bog standard netgear one (or similar) for relatively little - about £20 in the UK. I believe Guillaume has a more audiophile Paul Pang switch which provides isolation and isnt hugely expensive - that might be a better bet? There are lots of medical grade galvanic isolators about, and SotM do one, and lots of people on Computer Audiophile report best results using cheap-ish optical transmitters/receivers, the receiver being with a good linear PS. Lots of ways to do it. Whether its worth spending time/money, only you can decide.
RE: AIR 3 Beta for Mac - Duomike - 20-May-2016
thanks for your adv re blue jeans lan cable. I can hear big differences between usb cables. when starting to use my mini for the first time for audio into an ap2 with pp I i used a 50 bucks wireworld violet cable which resulted in quite edgy highs. switched to a core audio cable with separat 5 volt lead and the difference was very obvious. like going from a cheap to an expensive transport.
why should i put a lan switch between my mini and dev, for galvanic isolation?
RE: AIR 3 Beta for Mac - Hifi_swlon - 20-May-2016
No, I was just suggesting that a cheap switch would do the job of connecting them without going direct...
RE: AIR 3 Beta for Mac - Confused - 20-May-2016
(20-May-2016, 05:37)hk6230 Wrote: After 2 days of listening to AIR3.0, now I'm back to my old RoonBridge setup on Ultrabook/Win8.1/AIR2.1.3/JPlay6.2/Fidelizer7.2. The difference is very minimal. I would probably have to admit I still prefer this old setup over AIR3.0. I'm now even testing it on wireless connection to a wireless router, achieving merely 150mbps connection only.
This post actually got me thinking. I do tend to think of AIR as a kind of benchmark for sound quality, a benchmark that many on this forum can relate to. So if we get a post saying that a Melco N1A (or whatever) sounds slightly better than AIR, then many of us can directly relate to this. However, I have on occasion wondered if AIR is not a benchmark, but in fact two benchmarks. That is Mac + AIR might be fundamentally different to Windows + AIR. Taking the recent reports of how good Mac AIR 3 sounds, the Windows users get grumpy and think 'when will we get Windows AIR 3?', but who knows, maybe Windows AIR 2 sounds more or less as good? Just speculation on my part (I don't have a mac, so can't try it), although HK's post indicates that there isn't much in it.
Has anyone ever tried a direct comparison of Mac AIR vs Windows AIR? Maybe they sound more or less identical, but maybe they don't??
RE: AIR 3 Beta for Mac - hk6230 - 20-May-2016
Mac Core Audio has a clear advantage over native Windows audio driver. Hence, there are add-ons like Fidelizer, JPlay and Audio Optimizer to enhance Windows audio to match, if not exceed, Mac's Core Audio. When listening to AIR3.0 using an old Mac Mini (A1283, 2.53GHz Duo Core, 4GB RAM and 320GB SATA), I felt very heavy headed. After switching back to Win/AIR2.1.3/Fidelizer/JPlay, the heaviness was removed and I feel more relaxed with the music.