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+--- Thread: Acoustical Voodoo (/Thread-Acoustical-Voodoo)
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Acoustical Voodoo - baconbrain - 15-Nov-2016
I recently purchased a Trinnov ST2 Hifi wanting to explore the wonderful world of room correction. Given my sub-optimal listening room setup, I was quite convinced that the device would be nothing but beneficial.
Let me also say up front, that the Trinnov is an incredibly powerful (and complex) piece of equipment. If you are someone who loves to tinker with this stuff (like myself), then it has almost endless possibilities.
So, I did a a couple of calibration runs and sat down to listen to the results and it sounded really ..... different.
When going through the 5 system defined presets resulting from the calibration, each gave me insight (or earsight) into sound signatures of my system that I had truly never heard before. Some of them positive, others not so.
The biggest surprise (and main reason for my post) came after I toggled the optimizer on/off (on the fly). As I listened to my system without any correction, the sound suddenly seemed ..... stale.
My expectations were that yes, it might not sound as good as optimized setup, but I did not expect that it would sound as bad as it did.
What had I been listening to over the last months/years? I had the previous perception that my system sounded anything but ... stale. How did it happen that over the course of time my mind/ears became so convinced that I was having a really good listening experience? After the A/B comparison it was evident that I was not.
Whatever the reason, I can't explain it. Perhaps it is just Acoustical Voodoo ...
RE: Acoustical Voodoo - Antoine - 15-Nov-2016
I think it's the amazing human brain constantly adjusting, filtering/compensating and translating/interpreting what we hear. It's adjusting to new input which'll become the new standard at one point. You'd have to "re-learn" te appreciate your "old sound" again, especially if it has flaws that are now no longer there.
It's also one of the reasons audiophiles are always searching for more and better, to get that kick again once the new better has become the new normal. Of course different isn't always better so we/they have to be careful of that to not make circular changes.
If the sound is better now you'll perhaps notice you can listen longer than before without getting tired. Your brain simply has to work less hard.
RE: Acoustical Voodoo - baconbrain - 15-Nov-2016
(15-Nov-2016, 14:52)Antoine Wrote: I think it's the amazing human brain constantly adjusting, filtering/compensating and translating/interpreting what we hear. It's adjusting to new input which'll become the new standard at one point. You'd have to "re-learn" te appreciate your "old sound" again, especially if it has flaws that are now no longer there.
That's an interesting thought, but why then do most of us see change as positive when our brain was quite "comfortable" with the old setup. I rarely hear someone comment that a new piece of equipment, cable, upgrade, etc., sounded worse than what they had before ...
RE: Acoustical Voodoo - Soniclife - 15-Nov-2016
I'm quite convinced the brain 'fixes' a lot of what it hears, so that over a period of time you stop hearing a bit of boom, a lift / lower in the treble etc, as what you are mainly doing is comparing recording to recording, not each recording to some perfect ideal, until something jars us to re-hear the imperfections. Unless the problem is annoying you, then it's all you can hear.
What happens if you leave the correction turned off, go out of the room for 10 mins and then start listening again? I've played with this stuff a bit, and turning it off and on when you listen is is a huge change, but if you start a listening session with it in a random position the effect is much smaller.
RE: Acoustical Voodoo - Antoine - 15-Nov-2016
(15-Nov-2016, 16:19)baconbrain Wrote:(15-Nov-2016, 14:52)Antoine Wrote: I think it's the amazing human brain constantly adjusting, filtering/compensating and translating/interpreting what we hear. It's adjusting to new input which'll become the new standard at one point. You'd have to "re-learn" te appreciate your "old sound" again, especially if it has flaws that are now no longer there.
That's an interesting thought, but why then do most of us see change as positive when our brain was quite "comfortable" with the old setup. I rarely hear someone comment that a new piece of equipment, cable, upgrade, etc., sounded worse than what they had before ...
I read about those experiences fairly often (especially with cables and other accessoiries) but I guess many people will not share their results/experiences until something positive happened in a 'mission accomplished' way. Many people also try out the more expensive equipment before buying as to prevent buying something 'worse'.
(15-Nov-2016, 18:52)Soniclife Wrote: I'm quite convinced the brain 'fixes' a lot of what it hears, so that over a period of time you stop hearing a bit of boom, a lift / lower in the treble etc, as what you are mainly doing is comparing recording to recording, not each recording to some perfect ideal, until something jars us to re-hear the imperfections. Unless the problem is annoying you, then it's all you can hear.
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RE: Acoustical Voodoo - Hifi_swlon - 15-Nov-2016
(15-Nov-2016, 16:19)baconbrain Wrote:(15-Nov-2016, 14:52)Antoine Wrote: I think it's the amazing human brain constantly adjusting, filtering/compensating and translating/interpreting what we hear. It's adjusting to new input which'll become the new standard at one point. You'd have to "re-learn" te appreciate your "old sound" again, especially if it has flaws that are now no longer there.
That's an interesting thought, but why then do most of us see change as positive when our brain was quite "comfortable" with the old setup. I rarely hear someone comment that a new piece of equipment, cable, upgrade, etc., sounded worse than what they had before ...
Changes I've made over the past years certainly haven't always been positive - far from it.
. Although when you read some forums you'd get that impression as there definitely appear to be people for which any change is positive - particularly when they've spent money.I miss Dirac. I really hope Roon implement room correction soon. Even though to guests etc toggling it on and off didn't seem so obvious, it made a huge improvement to my enjoyment of music.
So what will you do? Swap over to the Trinnov?
Thinking about this adjusting thing it makes sense too. I have grouped zones and when I walk from the main hifi in the lounge, to the kitchen where's it's a pi DAC and a Marshall speaker, I get a very quick sense there's a lot missing but I'm fairly immediately back enjoying the music. Often I like things the Marshall speaker does more and have contemplated quite a few times selling the hifi and simply having those speakers everywhere instead.
RE: Acoustical Voodoo - Confused - 15-Nov-2016
Lots of interesting comments here about psychoacoustics. It's been cropping up a lot recently, not least in my 'burn in' time thread. In fact, I'm sure psychoacoustics as a topic would be more than worthy of it's own thread.
Having said that, I (and I'm sure many others) would be fascinated to hear about your experience with the Trinnov. Although no rush with this one, I suspect that it will take you a while to fully understand what it can do and how that influences your enjoyment of your system and music. So take your time and keep us posted!
RE: Acoustical Voodoo - baconbrain - 16-Nov-2016
(15-Nov-2016, 21:40)Confused Wrote: Lots of interesting comments here about psychoacoustics. It's been cropping up a lot recently, not least in my 'burn in' time thread. In fact, I'm sure psychoacoustics as a topic would be more than worthy of it's own thread.
Having said that, I (and I'm sure many others) would be fascinated to hear about your experience with the Trinnov. Although no rush with this one, I suspect that it will take you a while to fully understand what it can do and how that influences your enjoyment of your system and music. So take your time and keep us posted!
Agree and appreciate the "food for thought" comments each of you have raised.
For me, the Trinnov is here to stay, and yes, it will be a while before I am probably in a position/level of knowledge
to give an objective summary of the experience.One thing which has already become quite apparent for me is the clear benefit of investing in Room Correction Systems from truly dedicated and experienced manufacturers. I personally would be skeptical of "half baked" implementations from companys such as Devialet, Roon, etc. The more options one has to "dial-in" your personal psychoacoustical preferences, the more happy one will be. "One size fits all approaches" in this area will more than likely lead to long term frustration.
RE: Acoustical Voodoo - Hifi_swlon - 16-Nov-2016
Hopefully Roon will implement existing solutions like Dirac rather than invent their own. As for Devialet...
RE: Acoustical Voodoo - GuillaumeB - 16-Nov-2016
(15-Nov-2016, 12:33)baconbrain Wrote: What had I been listening to over the last months/years? I had the previous perception that my system sounded anything but ... stale. How did it happen that over the course of time my mind/ears became so convinced that I was having a really good listening experience? After the A/B comparison it was evident that I was not.
Whatever the reason, I can't explain it. Perhaps it is just Acoustical Voodoo ...
That's a very interesting observation and one I've been confronted many, many times! People often have no idea how much better things can get. One can never stop improving one's own setup (if one so desires of course). That doesn't mean there won't be a few wrong turns and cul-de-sacs along the way, that's what makes this hobby so fascinating after all. But the number of times I've heard people say that their systems couldn't get any better and then they did! I mean just look at the latest PRO series...
Also interesting (and I digress slightly here): the original Expert series already boasted some pretty perfect measurements: THD, damping factors etc. A few small and evolutionary tweaks under the hood to launch the PRO series and people are finding that's it's a big SQ upgrade.
Guillaume