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+--- Thread: Room treatment (/Thread-Room-treatment)
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Room treatment - Mikeeo - 22-Oct-2014
Hi All,
Just moved to a new house. I did the separate spur and dedicated mains cable which made a big difference. However to optimize I now started to think about room tuning. Is there anyone here that ventured into this area?
Any input/comments of great value.
/Mike
RE: Room treatment - Pim - 22-Oct-2014
Hi Mike,
I haven't done any room tuning as such but a mate of mine bought a pair of Magnepan 1.7's a few years ago. We installed them in the living room they lived in at the time; about 5m x 5m with thick carpet. They sounded fantastic. He later moved to a new place with a room about 6m x 8m and timber floors with very little furniture when he first moved in. They sounded so much worse that you wouldn't even think they were the same speakers anymore. Harsh, bright, no bass, no colour. Just plain bad.
It has been said a lot; the room is the most important part of your sound system. Go for it!
RE: Room treatment - Jwg1749 - 22-Oct-2014
I've also just moved in to a new house, and I plan to treat the room for upper mid and HF echoes. This is a pretty simple business. The right amount and balance of soft furnishings is all you need.
Dealing with LF problems is another matter altogether. Most small and medium sized rooms will produce a bass hump somewhere between 40 and 60 Hz. It is very difficult to treat such a hump with physical room treatment, as you need a massive thickness of absorbent material to absorb frequencies in that range. It's simpler and more effective to notch out the bass hump digitally. Devialet allows you to do this with the low- and high-pass filters.
RE: Room treatment - Mikeeo - 22-Oct-2014
Hi,
I've heard very good comments about this company (in Swedish but there is an USA link to click on) http://www.diffusor.com
Any one here that used their technology?
/Mike
RE: Room treatment - Kunter - 22-Oct-2014
Hi...
Room tuning, when done wrong, will do more harm then good.
First step is to position your speakers properly. I described my method (a slight variation of Wilson Audio WASP method) elsewhere in the forum.
After that, if you still have serious issues, then is the time to look into alternatives on adding specific treatment.
A nice carpet, heavy curtains at the back of the listening seat, and some amount of soft face furniture is a very good place to start to set the scene.
Once you get the basics right, I find room tuning resonators (do a google search for alternatives) help a lot. I currently use Stabilian disks to a very good effect. Also tried and used ASI (Frank Tchang) and Zilplex...
Cheers...
RE: Room treatment - Antoine - 22-Oct-2014
I agree, room tuning/acoustics together with an optimal placement of both loudspeakers and listening position are the most important things to do when you value a good music reproduction. The improvements that proper optimization of these factors bring is huge compared to tweaking with cables, power optimization etc. etc. Of course they're not mutually exclusive (in fact the benefits of the tweaks are more appararent after room optimization) but I would always advice to spend more resources (time and money) on the acoustics before the 'tweaking'.
Like Kunter wrote, doing it wrong will do more harm then good and acoustics is, for most, a really technical and difficult topic. After reading a lot about all the options I myself have decided, several years back, to hire an expert that is specialized in treating studio's and rooms for HiFi and home theater use. He works independent of manufacturers, installers, brands etc. so an objective advice regarding the solutions was guaranteed. After a listening session and technically measuring my room and listening to my wishes for the esthetics, budget and listening preferences he wrote a detailed plan describing multiple solutions in a step by step fashion. The room was simulated for the right amount of absorbtion and diffusion. The measurements showed for example that the RT60 times were much too high in my modern house (with mostly concrete walls, floors and ceilings) so these had to be tamed a lot. Part of the plan was to treat the ceiling of my living room (around 45m2) to tame the reverb times in a broadband fashion and add bass traps for the lowest frequencies. The ceiling in my situation was ideal as it provides both a large surface area for the treatment to be effective and the treatment itself is almost 'invisible' (which is great for WAF!
). After comparing the described solutions I decided to let an installer install a Rockfon Sonar D acoustical ceiling. Completely invisible solutions (through acoustical plasters) I found too expensive. Later I also bought a RPG Modex Plate bass absorber and inserted addiotional damping material above the ceiling in corners and sides to provide extra low frequency damping. He's also helped me optimize my speaker placement/listening position both with simulations and actual listening and advised me to get rid of the glass table between the listening position and the loudspeakers, which I did and I also bought a really heavy wool carpet there to further lower the reverb times.
After all the above I'm actually still not done as to really complete the plan/design I would have to place some additional absorption on the walls to fight flutter echo but the sound of/in the room has improved so much already that it still amazes me. Best money ever spent in this hobby! It not only helps enjoying music but also makes conversation easier, especially when there are multiple people in the room. I don't know how to describe this best in English but treating the room has very much improved the quality of living/being there, which of course is a nice thing since it's a living room.
RE: Room treatment - Mikeeo - 22-Oct-2014
(22-Oct-2014, 14:41)Antoine Wrote: I agree, room tuning/acoustics together with an optimal placement of both loudspeakers and listening position are the most important things to do when you value a good music reproduction. The improvements that proper optimization of these factors bring is huge compared to tweaking with cables, power optimization etc. etc. Of course they're not mutually exclusive (in fact the benefits of the tweaks are more appararent after room optimization) but I would always advice to spend more resources (time and money) on the acoustics before the 'tweaking'.
Like Kunter wrote, doing it wrong will do more harm then good and acoustics is, for most, a really technical and difficult topic. After reading a lot about all the options I myself have decided, several years back, to hire an expert that is specialized in treating studio's and rooms for HiFi and home theater use. He works independent of manufacturers, installers, brands etc. so an objective advice regarding the solutions was guaranteed. After a listening session and technically measuring my room and listening to my wishes for the esthetics, budget and listening preferences he wrote a detailed plan describing multiple solutions in a step by step fashion. The room was simulated for the right amount of absorbtion and diffusion. The measurements showed for example that the RT60 times were much too high in my modern house (with mostly concrete walls, floors and ceilings) so these had to be tamed a lot. Part of the plan was to treat the ceiling of my living room (around 45m2) to tame the reverb times in a broadband fashion and add bass traps for the lowest frequencies. The ceiling in my situation was ideal as it provides both a large surface area for the treatment to be effective and the treatment itself is almost 'invisible' (which is great for WAF!
Later I also bought a RPG Modex Plate bass absorber and inserted addiotional damping material above the ceiling in corners and sides to provide extra low frequency damping. He's also helped me optimize my speaker placement/listening position both with simulations and actual listening and advised me to get rid of the glass table between the listening position and the loudspeakers, which I did and I also bought a really heavy wool carpet there to further lower the reverb times.
After all the above I'm actually still not done as to really complete the plan/design I would have to place some additional absorption on the walls to fight flutter echo but the sound of/in the room has improved so much already that it still amazes me. Best money ever spent in this hobby! It not only helps enjoying music but also makes conversation easier, especially when there are multiple people in the room. I don't know how to describe this best in English but treating the room has very much improved the quality of living/being there, which of course is a nice thing since it's a living room.
Antoine, Kunter et al
Thanks for the exhaustive comments. Antoine you hit my nail on the spot in the last section. As for us we have a very reflective ceiling in our listening-/relaxing-/kicking back with friends-room as conversation etc is a bit tough when the room fills. I am looking at installing a mix between absorbtion and diffusion all over the ceiling for starters. I will consult an expert as well.
/Mike
RE: Room treatment - mauidan - 22-Oct-2014
(22-Oct-2014, 19:40)Mikeeo Wrote: I am looking at installing a mix between absorbtion and diffusion all over the ceiling for starters. I will consult an expert as well.
/Mike
http://www.vicoustic.com/hifi-home-cinema
RE: Room treatment - Mikeeo - 22-Oct-2014
(22-Oct-2014, 22:20)mauidan Wrote:Thanks for the link! Amazing solutions and what to chose?(22-Oct-2014, 19:40)Mikeeo Wrote: I am looking at installing a mix between absorbtion and diffusion all over the ceiling for starters. I will consult an expert as well.
/Mike
http://www.vicoustic.com/hifi-home-cinema
/Mike
RE: Room treatment - mauidan - 23-Oct-2014
(22-Oct-2014, 23:37)Mikeeo Wrote:(22-Oct-2014, 22:20)mauidan Wrote:Thanks for the link! Amazing solutions and what to chose?(22-Oct-2014, 19:40)Mikeeo Wrote: I am looking at installing a mix between absorbtion and diffusion all over the ceiling for starters. I will consult an expert as well.
/Mike
http://www.vicoustic.com/hifi-home-cinema
/Mike
This attractive product can used on walls and ceilings:
http://www.vicoustic.com/hifi-home-cinema/products/acoustic-treatment/absorption/panel/415