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Roon 2.0 with Expert Line featuring - Printable Version

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Roon 2.0 with Expert Line featuring - markush - 20-Sep-2022

Funny to see Expert line remote in the just released Roon 2.0 video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_KF2kqETL8


RE: Roon 2.0 with Expert Line featuring - daniel.avasilichioaei - 20-Sep-2022

This is because Devialet Expert looks good and despite the fact that the two companies have not yet managed to solve the RAAT protocol bug from the Gigabit network...


RE: Roon 2.0 with Expert Line featuring - markush - 20-Sep-2022

Yes absolutely! We should write about this on the Roon forum as it’s actually a shame stay still didn’t fix this - but claim to be „cool“ in their official marketing videos with Devialet gear.


RE: Roon 2.0 with Expert Line featuring - David A - 21-Sep-2022

(20-Sep-2022, 19:28)daniel.avasilichioaei Wrote: This is because Devialet Expert looks good and despite the fact that the two companies have not yet managed to solve the RAAT protocol bug from the Gigabit network...

(20-Sep-2022, 20:07)markush Wrote: Yes absolutely! We should write about this on the Roon forum as it’s actually a shame stay still didn’t fix this - but claim to be „cool“ in their official marketing videos with Devialet gear.

And what good will posting on one of the Roon forums do?

I remember when Devialet released the update which gave us RAAT. People started posting here and on Roon's forums about the problem. Roon acknowledged those comments, looked at them, and came back and said that it wasn't a Roon problem, it was a Devialet problem. They also said that they had offered to help Devialet fix it but Devialet refused that offer. It took months for Devialet to even make a comment about the problem and then they said it was theirs but it took them over a year longer to release an update which didn't totally fix it and that's where we're at.

Take a look at the history of software support forthe 2 companies. Roon publicly acknowledges problem reports, investigates, and reports back quickly. It also issues bug fix releases quickly, often within a few days. On the other hand Devialet is slow to publicly acknowledge a problem and much slower to fix it once acknowledged. That's been the case for the 5 years I've had a Devialet and for the 5 years I've been using Roon. Devialet had problems with their AIR driver for years before Roon incorporated streaming to a Devialet in their software and the Roon implementation of Devialet's AIR was bug free. Devialet's own stand alone version remained buggy.

Yes, the problem still remains but Roon have clearly said that it's a Devialet, not a Roon, problem. Devialet have admitted that it's their problem and have never denied Roon's statement that it's not a Roon problem, either in whole or in part. It's a Devialet problem and it's up to Devialet to fix it. Roon have said they offered assistance to Devialet and that Devialet refused that offer.

Go back to when we first got the RAAT update and take a look at the posts about the problem on the Roon forum and on this forum. Those posts back then didn't result in Devialet fixing the problem and there's no reason to expect that more posts now will be any more effective. Devialet have a very poor record on software bug fixes and user complaints about software bugs seem to count for nothing. Posting about this on the Roon forum isn't going to result in a fix for the problem because it's not a Roon problem. If it were a Roon problem it would have been fixed years ago. just take a look at their history when it comes to fixing bugs quickly.

When it comes to software and software support I have nothing but praise for Roon. Yes, they do issue software with bugs, every software firm does, but they acknowledge the bugs when they occur and they fix them fast. Bugs don't last for years without a fix with Roon. That's definitely not the case with Devialet.


RE: Roon 2.0 with Expert Line featuring - Confused - 24-Sep-2022

Roon do not always fix bugs fast.

Here's an example:

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/white-screen-with-multiple-monitor-issue/111783

Issue raised in June 2020, Roon advised that they "were actively investigating" in June 2020, Roon go very quiet for a year or so, July 2021 a Roon user comes up with a "workaround", Roon mark this as a "solution", then close the thread without comment.

Roon are good, but far from perfect.


RE: Roon 2.0 with Expert Line featuring - mdconnelly - 24-Sep-2022

I don’t think it’s a stretch to think that we all wish Devialet was as responsive to their customers and advancement of their products as Roon is. But they are certainly very different companies with very different products. It is what it is.


RE: Roon 2.0 with Expert Line featuring - lpuncel - 10-Dec-2022

(20-Sep-2022, 19:28)daniel.avasilichioaei Wrote: This is because Devialet Expert looks good and despite the fact that the two companies have not yet managed to solve the RAAT protocol bug from the Gigabit network...

Hi. What is the RAAT protocol bug? I have the Expert 220 and have had no problems with Roon.


RE: Roon 2.0 with Expert Line featuring - David A - 10-Dec-2022

(10-Dec-2022, 19:30)lpuncel Wrote:
(20-Sep-2022, 19:28)daniel.avasilichioaei Wrote: This is because Devialet Expert looks good and despite the fact that the two companies have not yet managed to solve the RAAT protocol bug from the Gigabit network...

Hi. What is the RAAT protocol bug? I have the Expert 220 and have had no problems with Roon.

RAAT is the streaming protocol Roon uses when streaming to a Roon Ready device. The Expert Pro amps are Roon Ready and Roon can stream to the Expert Pros using either RAAT or the Devialet AIR protocol. There can be problems using the RAAT protocol if the Roon to Expert Pro connection is made over a gigabit speed ethernet connection. The problem is due to a bug in Devialet's firmware for the Expert Pro range and was partially fixed in the last firmware update the Expert Pro's received in late 2020.

Your 220 is part of the Expert range, not the Expert Pro range, and is not Roon Ready. You're probably streaming from Roon using Devialet's AIR protocol and the problem does not affect streaming with the AIR protocol.


RE: Roon 2.0 with Expert Line featuring - frejo - 16-Dec-2022

(10-Dec-2022, 20:37)David A Wrote:
(10-Dec-2022, 19:30)lpuncel Wrote:
(20-Sep-2022, 19:28)daniel.avasilichioaei Wrote: This is because Devialet Expert looks good and despite the fact that the two companies have not yet managed to solve the RAAT protocol bug from the Gigabit network...

Hi. What is the RAAT protocol bug? I have the Expert 220 and have had no problems with Roon.

Your 220 is part of the Expert range, not the Expert Pro range, and is not Roon Ready. You're probably streaming from Roon using Devialet's AIR protocol and the problem does not affect streaming with the AIR protocol.

A 220 is a Expert pro model and can run RAAT. There is no non-pro 220.


RE: Roon 2.0 with Expert Line featuring - David A - 16-Dec-2022

(16-Dec-2022, 18:37)frejo Wrote: A 220 is a Expert pro model and can run RAAT. There is no non-pro 220.

I made a mistake and you are most probably right but you may be wrong.

For some reason I had a mental block while attempting to answer the question and thought the 220 was an Expert rather than and Expert Pro and framed my answer accordingly.

You may be wrong because it was/is possible to buy a 220 which is not Roon Ready. Roon Ready Expert Pros require the CI board and Expert Pros were sold for about a year before the CI board was available with the promise that they would receive the board as a free upgrade on its release. I bought my 140 in early 2017 (it was a 130 on purchase) in the days before the CI board and had it upgraded with the board in early 2018.If someone bought a 220 before December 2017 and did not have it upgraded with the board, then they have a 220 which is not Roon Ready. It's also possible that someone acquired a non Roon Ready 220 on the used market after the release of the CI board and haven't had it upgraded. The fact is that it is possible that there are a small number of 220s sold before December 2017 which have not been upgraded with the CI board and are still in use and which are not Roon Ready.  I don't  know whether @lpuncel has a 220 which is Roon Ready or not.

If @lpuncel does have a 220 which is not Roon Ready (unlikely), then my original answer is correct. The problem does not affect Devialets which are not Roon Ready.

Assuming that @lpuncel does have a 220 which is Roon Ready then to correctly answer his original question I can think of several possibile reasons he has not had any problems with Roon. They are:

1- he is streaming to the 220 via wifi. The RAAT problem only affects people using a gigabit ethernet connection. Another possibility is that he  is connecting to his Roon core via USB which would also avoid the problem.

2- he is streaming to the 220 over a gigabit ethernet connection but using the AIR protocol rather than the RAAT protocol. The problem only arises if you stream with RAAT.

3- he is streaming to the 220 over ethernet but he is using a 100 mbps connection rather than a gigabit connection. The bug is related to gigabit speed connections.

4- the bug did not affect everyone with a gigabit ethernet connection. For example I originally never experienced the problem because I had no HD files on my server and was only streaming CD quality or MQA tracks from Tidal and I never used Roon's upscaling facility. The bug was most noticeable when streaming high resolution material and I only noticed it when I tried having Roon upscale everything to 192/24 resolution. It's possible to not notice the problem if you only stream CD or lower resolution music over a gigabit ethernet connection. Actually I only noticed it with 192/24 material and not with a 176.4/24 high res album I downloaded.

5- he only started using Roon after the last FW update in October 2020. That update did do something in relation to the RAAT bug but it did not seem to fix it for everyone. It's possible that @lpuncel has been lucky and found that he has no problems with RAAT on a gigabit connection with the current firmware though other people  have reported problems with it.