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+--- Thread: A lot of hot AIR from Devialet - survey 2 (/Thread-A-lot-of-hot-AIR-from-Devialet-survey-2)
RE: A lot of hot AIR from Devialet - survey 2 - PhilP - 24-Mar-2015
(24-Mar-2015, 08:09)Jean-Marie Wrote: I have short drop outs only, quite infrequent: no more than once of twice a day for a 5 to 6 hours listening.
Everytime, I have been able to relate that to the known bug in MacOS related to "kernel[0]: IOAudioStream[0x4d83000]::clipIfNecessary() - Error: attempting to clip to a position more than one buffer ahead of last clip position (d24,39)->(d57,3b5)"
This is frustrating because the problem belongs to Apple but they ignored it for years (it is known to appear on some USB interfaces as well as firewire) and therefore, unless Apple corrects it which is unlikely, the only solution for Devialet is to work around it.
Jean-Marie,
I wondered whether you had told Devialet about this Apple bug and if so what their response was?
Philip
RE: A lot of hot AIR from Devialet - survey 2 - f1eng - 24-Mar-2015
(24-Mar-2015, 08:09)Jean-Marie Wrote: I have short drop outs only, quite infrequent: no more than once of twice a day for a 5 to 6 hours listening.
Everytime, I have been able to relate that to the known bug in MacOS related to "kernel[0]: IOAudioStream[0x4d83000]::clipIfNecessary() - Error: attempting to clip to a position more than one buffer ahead of last clip position (d24,39)->(d57,3b5)"
This is frustrating because the problem belongs to Apple but they ignored it for years (it is known to appear on some USB interfaces as well as firewire) and therefore, unless Apple corrects it which is unlikely, the only solution for Devialet is to work around it.
Is this a software bug or timing error?
It depends on how the clocks are handled but if they are not locked, and differ in frequency, they may eventually get more than one buffer out of step after a certain time. I would then expect this sort of error message.
The length of time between starting to stream music and the first hesitation would then depend on the difference between the actual computer and Devialet clocks involved, and if they were almost the same maybe one would not get a dropout in any realistic length of listening session. If they differ more maybe there will be a dropout in every session, and even more frequent with HR files.
RE: A lot of hot AIR from Devialet - survey 2 - Chris Marshall - 24-Mar-2015
My main problem is dropouts with 24/192 tracks, 24/96 plays ok.
i have once had white noise after 3 hours but rarely listen so long in one session.
cheers
Chris
RE: A lot of hot AIR from Devialet - survey 2 - GuillaumeB - 24-Mar-2015
(24-Mar-2015, 13:50)Chris Marshall Wrote: My main problem is dropouts with 24/192 tracks, 24/96 plays ok.
i have once had white noise after 3 hours but rarely listen so long in one session.
cheers
Chris
Hi Chris can you make sure you vote in survey 1 please? Thanks!
If anyone else hasn't yet voted in survey one please do so ASAP.
http://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=939
We need a LOT more people to vote.
Guillaume
RE: A lot of hot AIR from Devialet - survey 2 - Jean-Marie - 24-Mar-2015
(24-Mar-2015, 10:41)Rufus McDufus Wrote:(24-Mar-2015, 08:09)Jean-Marie Wrote: I have short drop outs only, quite infrequent: no more than once of twice a day for a 5 to 6 hours listening.
Everytime, I have been able to relate that to the known bug in MacOS related to "kernel[0]: IOAudioStream[0x4d83000]::clipIfNecessary() - Error: attempting to clip to a position more than one buffer ahead of last clip position (d24,39)->(d57,3b5)"
This is frustrating because the problem belongs to Apple but they ignored it for years (it is known to appear on some USB interfaces as well as firewire) and therefore, unless Apple corrects it which is unlikely, the only solution for Devialet is to work around it.
That is very interesting. The errors do coincide with the dropouts do they? Googling this seems to be a fairly common problem with programs that perform sound card interaction, but it's odd that the AIR issue is also happening on Windows too. Could it be quite low level close to the sound card drivers? it implies underlying code common between Mac and PC.
I've never managed to get any kind of error log messages on Windows.
I think they are using Qt so yes there is most certainly a lot of common code between the MacOS and the Windows solutions.
RE: A lot of hot AIR from Devialet - survey 2 - Jean-Marie - 24-Mar-2015
(24-Mar-2015, 10:51)PhilP Wrote:Yes I have told them and gave them some traces.(24-Mar-2015, 08:09)Jean-Marie Wrote: I have short drop outs only, quite infrequent: no more than once of twice a day for a 5 to 6 hours listening.
Everytime, I have been able to relate that to the known bug in MacOS related to "kernel[0]: IOAudioStream[0x4d83000]::clipIfNecessary() - Error: attempting to clip to a position more than one buffer ahead of last clip position (d24,39)->(d57,3b5)"
This is frustrating because the problem belongs to Apple but they ignored it for years (it is known to appear on some USB interfaces as well as firewire) and therefore, unless Apple corrects it which is unlikely, the only solution for Devialet is to work around it.
Jean-Marie,
I wondered whether you had told Devialet about this Apple bug and if so what their response was?
Philip
This is not something easy because it is probably related to the relative scheduling between the driver in the kernel and core-audio. Probably some race condition, but if I understand correctly there is not much you can do as a driver developer because it is all handled by the OS.
RE: A lot of hot AIR from Devialet - survey 2 - Jean-Marie - 24-Mar-2015
(24-Mar-2015, 13:37)f1eng Wrote:(24-Mar-2015, 08:09)Jean-Marie Wrote: I have short drop outs only, quite infrequent: no more than once of twice a day for a 5 to 6 hours listening.
Everytime, I have been able to relate that to the known bug in MacOS related to "kernel[0]: IOAudioStream[0x4d83000]::clipIfNecessary() - Error: attempting to clip to a position more than one buffer ahead of last clip position (d24,39)->(d57,3b5)"
This is frustrating because the problem belongs to Apple but they ignored it for years (it is known to appear on some USB interfaces as well as firewire) and therefore, unless Apple corrects it which is unlikely, the only solution for Devialet is to work around it.
Is this a software bug or timing error?
It depends on how the clocks are handled but if they are not locked, and differ in frequency, they may eventually get more than one buffer out of step after a certain time. I would then expect this sort of error message.
The length of time between starting to stream music and the first hesitation would then depend on the difference between the actual computer and Devialet clocks involved, and if they were almost the same maybe one would not get a dropout in any realistic length of listening session. If they differ more maybe there will be a dropout in every session, and even more frequent with HR files.
To me this is a software bug that does not handle correctly timing variation and probably encounter some race condition.
I have done real-time development myself, and I can tell you that the vast majority of people, including realtime developers are not handling this kind of problem correctly and do not implement robust solutions.
So I am not that surprise that Apple is in that case.
RE: A lot of hot AIR from Devialet - survey 2 - Womaz - 24-Mar-2015
I think the sad thing for me is that it has taken a little bit of the buzz I have away from my 200 purchase.
I decided to invest in a new laptop , JRiver and a better ethernet cable as I was looking to use AIR as my primary source until funds become available for a possible streamer solution.
If i had known about the AIR issues I would have gone a different route. To be honest once I had the 200 at home no one was ever going to take it away as i love it.
I am just frustrated that even before I bought the unit I had contacted support a few times with regards to the best way of setting up my 200....at no stage did they alert me to the "white noise " issue. It would not have stopped me going for the 200, but I would have avoided AIR. So I do feel a little let down.
But yes it still sounds WONDERFUL........
A lot of hot AIR from Devialet - survey 2 - Sevenwong - 30-Mar-2015
Wifi and Ethernet both have cracking issue, sometime it happens quickly (within 15 mins of playback) sometime within hours. Once happen the only solution is to disable then re-enable AIR. NAS and Mac connected via wire. Any combination of Bit perfect and buffer time doesn't matter, I can reproduce the problem with any combination.
Using 2008 Macbook, latest OS, latest firmware for Devialet, latest AIR.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RE: A lot of hot AIR from Devialet - survey 2 - Mohmm - 05-Apr-2015
(30-Mar-2015, 23:50)Sevenwong Wrote: Wifi and Ethernet both have cracking issue, sometime it happens quickly (within 15 mins of playback) sometime within hours. Once happen the only solution is to disable then re-enable AIR. NAS and Mac connected via wire. Any combination of Bit perfect and buffer time doesn't matter, I can reproduce the problem with any combination.
Using 2008 Macbook, latest OS, latest firmware for Devialet, latest AIR.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk