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Antoine's system
(15-Jan-2017, 12:50)Antoine Wrote: Hi Baconbrain,

Sorry to hear it doesn't work out for you. I can think of three things to try in your situation (assuming there have been others for which NAA works in bridge mode, I haven't kept track).

If I'm not mistaken HQPlayer NAA uses mDNS (multicast DNS) for device discovery, at least it used to. This means that all hosts need to be in a single subnet/broadcast domain for them to be able to find each other. This is similar to Apple's Bonjour protocol (and other similar protocols like Zeroconf, uPnP, ...). Separate routed subnets won't work for these protocols which I myself realized yesterday after thinking over my own plans. If I'd go this path I'd have to sacrifice the Shairport (Airplay) functionality of the SMS-200 as it's anything but easy to work around this issue (I'd need some sort of software that proxies/forwards/mirrors/repeats this type of traffic into the second subnet. Easy on Mac and Linux using readily available software but not Windows)

To troubleshoot your issue you could try the following:
1. For mDNS to work in a bridged setup the bridge should be a layer 2 bridge which requires your NIC's to operate in promiscuous mode. If they don't, for whatever reason, the bridge will operate in layer 3 mode which doesn't route/forward broadcast and multicast traffic breaking the mDNS, Bonjour etc. type of protocols. You can't easily check in what mode it is running and there's not much you can do but for sure I'd update your NIC drivers so install the latest manafacturer issued device drivers and check again.

2. go back to the previous working state so undo the current bridge configuration and configure the first "primary" NIC connecting to your network like you normally would. Then undo any of the IP configuration of the "secondary" NIC connecting to the mR and just set it to 'obtain an IP address autmatically' and 'Obtain DNS server address automatically'. Then after confirming restored network connectivity for your PC and a reboot just to be sure, re-apply the bridge configuration like detailed here: http://www.windowscentral.com/how-set-an...windows-10 but ignore the suggestions Clipper made on CA about assigning IP addresses to the secondary NIC in a different subnet (they make absolutely no sense!).

3. If step 1&2 don't work you could try the procedure outlined here: http://lifeofageekadmin.com/how-to-manua...-72008-r2/ This will try to force your NIC's into promiscuous mode. Just ignore this being about Windows Server 2008 R2. These settings are available on Windows 10 as well (I tried them in an attempt to troubleshoot the upload throughput issues).

Good luck!

edit: I have confirmed Airplay/Shairport works in my setup so NAA should too but I have no ways to test it (NAA) as I don't own the HQPlayer software and don't want to trial it at this moment (one can only trial it once, at least officially so I want to safe that option for later).
Also I'll keep searching and experimenting for a solution of the troughput issue until I run out of options. If I find a solution I'll share it here.

Hi Antonie,

I realize that some water has flown under the bridge (not the network one Smile ) since this post, but thought I should report back to close the loop.

Since the upgrade of Roon to 1.3, I have tried numerous constellations of using the mR as a Roon Ready device with Roon upsampling versus the mR as an NAA device while upsampling via HQPlayer. For me, the later has turned out to be clearly the preferred choice. In particular when connecting the mR directly to my music pc in bridged mode.

In reference to your suggestions above, I did have to do a bit of tweaking before it really worked right with my system. Firstly, the mR will not be recognized as an NAA by HQplayer if one does not assign an IP Address in a seperate subnet to the 2nd NIC as proposed by Clipper in the CA Forum. Secondly, enabling promiscuous mode on my USB to Ethernet adapter had no effect when attempting to improve the overall throughput of the system. What surprisingly fixed the throughput issue was just adding my on-board Wifi controller to the bridge in a disconnected state. This was also recommended by another member in the CA Forum. For me this last step made absolutely no sense, but worked! Throughput is back to normal and the sound is sooooo good. Smile

This tweak together with the HQPlayer and mR in my system has really done something magical. Honestly, one of the top five changes I believe to  have made in my setup to-date.

BB

PS: Ditched my Cisco Switch and picked up a Netgear. Life is easier now...
Kii Three Speakers | JL Audio Fathom Subwoofer  | KEF LS50 Speakers | Samsung 850 Soundbar
Innuos Statement | Trinnov Altitude 32 | PS Audio Stellar S300 Amp | T+A HA 200 Headphone Amplifier | Meze Empyrean Headphones
Sean Jacobs DC-3 Custom Build LPS | Roon Core DIY Server | SOtM sNH-10G Modded Switch | Oppo UDP-205 Blu-Ray/SACD Player
T+A G 2000 R Turntable | DS Audio E1 Optical Stylus | Gordian Lab 12 Power Conditioner | Artesania Audio Rack
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Unfortunately somehow the slight bright-/thinness I experienced before crept back in. Don't know yet for sure why it was gone for a short while directly after increasing the voltage of the SR7 output feeding my SMS-200. (http://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?t...9#pid58369). Could be multiple reasons, the solution could also be simple: go back to the "non-direct" network connection (so music server and SMS-200 both back, connected to an ethernet switch). I would however sacrifice the additional clarity, transparancy and incredible detail that setup gives me so it's better to keep looking for a/the cause(s). Most likely I've exposed a new bottleneck, which could be the FMC's or the music server (standard non-optimized hardware, fans, spinning disks, SSD, big SMSS power supply)

I've been looking at some options for a music server to possibly replace my DIY NAS. I mentioned it before, when I put a music server back into the living room I'd like to power it using 12V from the Hynes SR7 PSU.

This 12V requirement limits my options somewhat:

1. use a PicoPSU (or PicoPSU style) in a regular mainboard that can be powered with 12V. I could use my previous optimized music server (dismantled mosty, now HTPC) for this purpose.
2. Buy an Intel NUC/Mac Mini
3. Buy a Chinese mini PC like the ones here: https://eglobal.aliexpress.com/store/all...0.0.xNPQvS
4. Buy a mini PC of the better known brands like Gigabyte, Acer, etc.
5. Build one small, energy efficient but powerful machine myself using a thin-ITX mainboard that accepts 12V

I'm skipping options 1 & 2. Option 1 because of reliability and quality issues. Option 2 because I'm not a fan of the NUC/Mac. Not fanless, overpriced, too limited, too small. Same goes for option 4 except the overpriced part.

Option 3 could be a nice 'low cost' option. For example a complete system with low powered (15W TDP) 7th Gen Intel Core i7 7500U dual core CPU for about €370 excluding RAM/storage including shipping. (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product...80790.html). No idea about its quality though. Can easily rip out the WiFi and SD card reader. No room for an additional NIC or PCIE, M.2 cards though or any other stuff.

Option 5 is what I oriented on further today. It would give me maximum flexibility using well known brands I trust.

Case: HDPlex H1.S ~$189 + $9 for thin ITX backplate (http://www.hd-plex.com/hdplex-h1.s-fanle...-case.html)
Mainboard:
Gigabyte GA-H110TN-E (single onboard NIC) ~€120 http://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-H...-rev-10#ov
Gigabyte GA-H110TN (dual onboard NIC) ~€165 http://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-H110TN-rev-10#ov

Both have a PCIE (4x) expansion slot to install a NIC or USB card so the -E version which has the least unnecessary other options would be preferred. Cheaper too.

CPU:
Preferred a latest 7th generation S1151 Kaby Lake one with a TDP of 35W. Sweet spot CPU's for me would be one of these where I currently favour the i5 one.
Intel Core i3-7100T dual core @ 3,4GHz, 4MB L3 cache (~€132)
Intel Core i5-7600T quad core @ 2,8GHz-3,7GHz, 6MB L3 cache (~€242)
Intel Core i7-7700T quad core/hyperthreading @ 4 @ 2,9GHz-3,8GHz, 8MB L3 cache (~€335)

Storage: I would start with my recently bought 1TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD and see from there
Memory: 2x4GB kit of DDR4 memory. Nothing special, something like Corsair Value Select CMSO8GX4M2A2133C15 (~€65)

I can install my current PCI-E Intel I210 NIC in the PCIE 4X slot or upgrade it to either a fiber NIC or dual 1Gbs NIC.

Could also upgrade the mainboard clocks! Big Grin

No rush, these are the first ideas that formed over the past few weeks but I'll all think it over without any pressure over the coming days/weeks! Smile
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Uptone Audio etherREGEN, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands
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(27-Feb-2017, 21:53)baconbrain Wrote: Hi Antonie,

I realize that some water has flown under the bridge (not the network one Smile ) since this post, but thought I should report back to close the loop.

Since the upgrade of Roon to 1.3, I have tried numerous constellations of using the mR as a Roon Ready device with Roon upsampling versus the mR as an NAA device while upsampling via HQPlayer. For me, the later has turned out to be clearly the preferred choice. In particular when connecting the mR directly to my music pc in bridged mode.

In reference to your suggestions above, I did have to do a bit of tweaking before it really worked right with my system. Firstly, the mR will not be recognized as an NAA by HQplayer if one does not assign an IP Address in a seperate subnet to the 2nd NIC as proposed by Clipper in the CA Forum. Secondly, enabling promiscuous mode on my USB to Ethernet adapter had no effect when attempting to improve the overall throughput of the system. What surprisingly fixed the throughput issue was just adding my on-board Wifi controller to the bridge in a disconnected state. This was also recommended by another member in the CA Forum. For me this last step made absolutely no sense, but worked! Throughput is back to normal and the sound is sooooo good. Smile

This tweak together with the HQPlayer and mR in my system has really done something magical. Honestly, one of the top five changes I believe to  have made in my setup to-date.

BB

PS: Ditched my Cisco Switch and picked up a Netgear. Life is easier now...

Who's Antonie? Wink Big Grin

If there's one thing I've learned from this bridging thing on Windows is that it is incredibly buggy /unpredictable. Results depend much on the hardware used too it seems without any clear indicators as to the why's. The CA thread and your and my issues prove that easily too. On OS X seems to work better. I myself gave up after several hours and switched to the routed setup I detailed earlier. And though the bridge setup did work I wasn't satisfied with the performance. With the routed setup I had to give up Airplay and if I used HQPlayer it wouldn't work in this setup either but I wasn't willing to take the performance hit since the machine I use is also a NAS. (this may change, see my previous post Smile)

Thanks for the update. I'm very glad you persisted and got it working! Cool  It's very weird, since the settings of the second NIC are discarded once the bridge is formed so no idea why that works, must be part of the buggyness. Same goes for the WiFi adapter that's not used, just part of the bridge while doing nothing. I may try it later too, just for "fun" and it would be nice if if fixes the performance issues. Plus it would re-enable me to use Airplay (and thus Spotify) again. I read coming month SOTM is going to update the old and abandoned Shairport 1.0 software with a newer, maintained spin-off which improves SQ.

Enjoy!
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Uptone Audio etherREGEN, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands
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(27-Feb-2017, 22:25)Antoine Wrote: Who's Antonie? Wink Big Grin

Ha! Apologies on the typo, guess my fingers where typing in German ...  Blush
Kii Three Speakers | JL Audio Fathom Subwoofer  | KEF LS50 Speakers | Samsung 850 Soundbar
Innuos Statement | Trinnov Altitude 32 | PS Audio Stellar S300 Amp | T+A HA 200 Headphone Amplifier | Meze Empyrean Headphones
Sean Jacobs DC-3 Custom Build LPS | Roon Core DIY Server | SOtM sNH-10G Modded Switch | Oppo UDP-205 Blu-Ray/SACD Player
T+A G 2000 R Turntable | DS Audio E1 Optical Stylus | Gordian Lab 12 Power Conditioner | Artesania Audio Rack
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(28-Feb-2017, 12:03)baconbrain Wrote: Ha! Apologies on the typo, guess my fingers where typing in German ...  Blush

Haha, no problem of course!! Smile
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Uptone Audio etherREGEN, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands
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Out of the options I wrote up earlier I made the decision to build a new music/Roon server myself and just ordered the following stuff. Made some changes to the original list of stuff, mainly to save costs. The Streacom is cheaper and I found the Skylake i7 6700T CPU used for less than the Kaby Lake i5 7600T CPU I mentioned earlier. Differences between Kaby Lake and Skylake are minor and not really worth it, especially in this case where it'll run in a headless server.


Case: Streacom FC8 Alpha Optical Fanless Chassis - Silver (http://www.streacom.com/products/fc8-alp...s-chassis/)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H110TN-E (http://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-H...-rev-10#ov)
RAM: Crucial DDR4 2133Mhz CL15 - 8GB (kit 2 x 4GB)
CPU: Intel Core i7-6700T (2.8GHz-3.6GHz, quad core, hyper threading, 35W, 8MB L3 cache)
Arctic Silver AS5 - 12grams (thermal compound)

This costs me ~573 euro's, a lot less than any commercial seller would charge. 

Will add the 1TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD and entry level server grade PCI-E Intel I210 ethernet adapter I already own to make the system complete.

To be continued! Smile

edit: the case looks rather big in this picture but it measures: 24 x 25 x 10cm.
[Image: fc8s_alpha_opt_000025.jpg]
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Uptone Audio etherREGEN, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands
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To clarify; I will place this PC inside the 'low board' in which all the AV/Stereo components are placed. It should fit, like it did with my previous music server. This one is smaller.

It'll have two ethernet NIC's so I can keep using the "Romaz" bridged (or routed setup in my case which I believe to be even more efficient as the SMS-200 is then on a separate subnet and will only receive the traffic it's meant to receive, since there's no other devices on this subnet).

The "dual network leg" chain will be (I'll update the system diagram later this week Smile):

music server (ethernet 1) -> AQ Diamond ethernet cable -> SMS-200 -> Curious USB 20cm cable -> Mutec -> Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU -> Devialet 250 Pro
music server (ethernet 2) -> Supra CAT 8 ethernet -> FMC -> fiber cable to upstairs -> FMC -> Supra CAT 8 -> switch -> router -> Internet

(I may experiment with the EMO Systems EN-HD70 LAN isolator in leg 1 or 2).

The new server will be powered by my Paul Hynes SR7-EHD-MR4 using the 12V high current output (max 8A which is more than twice I need) as the thin-ITX motherboard has a direct 12V input.

Of course I'll have the option to insert an audiophile switch or some future "ethernet regen" in 'leg 1' to the SMS-200. There's also the option to upgrade the clocks on the mainboard and/or ethernet NIC using, for example, the SOTM SCLK-EX clock board (http://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english...m/sclk-ex/).

Will play with the cheap but good performing SATA cables I mentioned earlier and I will power the SSD using a separate LPSU or perhaps a LPS-1 (though that's a bit expensive to just just power a SSD of course).

Of course I'll install Windows Server 2012 R2 plus AO (Audiophile Optimizer) again.
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Uptone Audio etherREGEN, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands
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(01-Mar-2017, 23:01)Antoine Wrote: To clarify; I will place this PC inside the 'low board' in which all the AV/Stereo components are placed. It should fit, like it did with my previous music server. This one is smaller.

It'll have two ethernet NIC's so I can keep using the "Romaz" bridged (or routed setup in my case which I believe to be even more efficient as the SMS-200 is then on a separate subnet and will only receive the traffic it's meant to receive, since there's no other devices on this subnet).

The "dual network leg" chain will be (I'll update the system diagram later this week Smile):

music server (ethernet 1) -> AQ Diamond ethernet cable -> SMS-200 -> Curious USB 20cm cable -> Mutec -> Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU -> Devialet 250 Pro
music server (ethernet 2) -> Supra CAT 8 ethernet -> FMC -> fiber cable to upstairs -> FMC -> Supra CAT 8 -> switch -> router -> Internet

(I may experiment with the EMO Systems EN-HD70 LAN isolator in leg 1 or 2).

The new server will be powered by my Paul Hynes SR7-EHD-MR4 using the 12V high current output (max 8A which is more than twice I need) as the thin-ITX motherboard has a direct 12V input.

Of course I'll have the option to insert an audiophile switch or some future "ethernet regen" in 'leg 1' to the SMS-200. There's also the option to upgrade the clocks on the mainboard and/or ethernet NIC using, for example, the SOTM SCLK-EX clock board (http://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english...m/sclk-ex/).

Will play with the cheap but good performing SATA cables I mentioned earlier and I will power the SSD using a separate LPSU or perhaps a LPS-1 (though that's a bit expensive to just just power a SSD of course).

Of course I'll install Windows Server 2012 R2 plus AO (Audiophile Optimizer) again.

Nice.
May I suggest to install AO on Server 2016. Some say that AO on WS2016 in GUI-Mode sounds better than WS2012 in CORE-Mode. And licences for WS2016 are cheap on ebay. I would have done it myself yet...but time, oh time...

gui
"Oh, you can buy the other. But then it is a cost intensive learning process"
berlin
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Hi Gui,

Thus far I got some mixed signals reading about Server 2012 vs. 2016. Audiophil the maker says that for now 2012 is still best and some (not all) users say 2016 outperforms 2012. Downside of using 2016 is that I'd need to run it in "full" GUI mode as Roon Server doesn't run in the "minimal" Core mode. In 2012 there's the minimal server mode (in between GUI and Core) which Microsoft removed from 2016 that does allow Roon Server to run.

Anyway, I'll test 2016 at some point. Easy enough! Smile
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Uptone Audio etherREGEN, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands
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(03-Mar-2017, 13:28)Antoine Wrote: Hi Gui,

Thus far I got some mixed signals reading about Server 2012 vs. 2016. Audiophil the maker says that for now 2012 is still best and some (not all) users say 2016 outperforms 2012. Downside of using 2016 is that I'd need to run it in "full" GUI mode as Roon Server doesn't run in the "minimal" Core mode. In 2012 there's the minimal server mode (in between GUI and Core) which Microsoft removed from 2016 that does allow Roon Server to run.

Anyway, I'll test 2016 at some point. Easy enough! Smile

Ok. I did not think about Roon. But I'm sure Phil will also find a way around this issue in near future. He should have a Dxxx for evaluating the SQ of his software developments though to be sure about his improvements Big Grin

gui
"Oh, you can buy the other. But then it is a cost intensive learning process"
berlin
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