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DSD
#31
(02-Dec-2014, 15:37)agentsmith Wrote:
(14-Nov-2014, 16:24)GuillaumeB Wrote:
(14-Nov-2014, 16:05)Beajuju Wrote:
(14-Nov-2014, 11:13)GuillaumeB Wrote: A couple of interesting pieces on DSD, some of you may already have read these but I thought it would be good to share these on here.

http://www.grimmaudio.com/site/assets/fi...d_myth.pdf

http://www.grimmaudio.com/site/assets/fi..._faq-1.pdf

What with the imminent release of DoP on the Devialet platform it's probably time for some of us to start getting our heads around this format!

Guillaume




Guillaume,
How Devialet will make available the DoP for the Mac platform by Air if iTunes can't play DSD format? Unless ...

DoP can only be transmitted through USB, AES or SPDIF... so I doubt AIR will be used at all.

Let's see how they implement this!

Guillaume


Guillaume,

Not entirely true, there is a way to encode the DoP envelope into FLAC and fool any medium into thinking it is plain FLAC files.

When the receiving DoP capable DAC receives the packet, it is fooled into thinking it is a normal DoP stream and happily plays it in DSD.

I used to do that with a Squeeebox Touch and my dCS DAC.

Mind you that is an extra step of encoding the files into FLAC formats, and more storage.

Details below:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread...-Wandboard

Worked like a charm

Wow very clever!

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, 2 X SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

UK
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#32
Hi, I am new here and is currently thinking of getting D200/400.
About DSD, maybe I can share some stuff. As I am using CHORD HUGO, some findings there could very well apply here.

DSD 2.8 could be encapsulated in FLAC DoP 24bit/172khz. Its has more than enough. To play it, as long as DAC is able to read the encapsulated DoP in FLAC, it should still be in raw DSD format. FLAC is just a container.

DSD (DSF/DFF) raw files are NOT build for streaming. Thus thinking about streaming over ethernet from a server will probably not work well. Or at best, it will "copy" the whole large DSD file locally than playback as 1 complete file.

However, FLAC is a different story. That is why a lot of DAC makers (DSD compatible ones) uses DoP over FLAC or ALAC. (Yes, both can be used. I use ALAC as it is seamless with playing from my iPhone connected to Hugo streaming.

Hopefully, Devialet is looking at this rather than tries to decode full DSD. That would be horrendous to implement. The lag delays would not be workable.

Jriver, for example, does this on the fly. It can push a raw DSF file into DoP format and output directly into USB or streaming.

Hope that Devialet could come out with an acceptable solution as my DSD collection is growing. Be it via USB or Streaming (preferred), it should be supported.

Also, they should try looking at 32bit/384khz or more. I have DXD format too, which is raw PCM at 384khz. I belief devialet has no support to that yet. But my Hugo plays back perfectly....

Hope to share prior to my decision to purchase the Devialet. But as yet, I could not decide.

Regards.
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#33
(03-Dec-2014, 03:29)madumm Wrote: Hi, I am new here and is currently thinking of getting D200/400.
About DSD, maybe I can share some stuff. As I am using CHORD HUGO, some findings there could very well apply here.

DSD 2.8 could be encapsulated in FLAC DoP 24bit/172khz. Its has more than enough. To play it, as long as DAC is able to read the encapsulated DoP in FLAC, it should still be in raw DSD format. FLAC is just a container.

DSD (DSF/DFF) raw files are NOT build for streaming. Thus thinking about streaming over ethernet from a server will probably not work well. Or at best, it will "copy" the whole large DSD file locally than playback as 1 complete file.

However, FLAC is a different story. That is why a lot of DAC makers (DSD compatible ones) uses DoP over FLAC or ALAC. (Yes, both can be used. I use ALAC as it is seamless with playing from my iPhone connected to Hugo streaming.

Hopefully, Devialet is looking at this rather than tries to decode full DSD. That would be horrendous to implement. The lag delays would not be workable.

Jriver, for example, does this on the fly. It can push a raw DSF file into DoP format and output directly into USB or streaming.

Hope that Devialet could come out with an acceptable solution as my DSD collection is growing. Be it via USB or Streaming (preferred), it should be supported.

Also, they should try looking at 32bit/384khz or more. I have DXD format too, which is raw PCM at 384khz. I belief devialet has no support to that yet. But my Hugo plays back perfectly....

Hope to share prior to my decision to purchase the Devialet. But as yet, I could not decide.

Regards.

madumm, thanks for sharing!

i stand to be corrected, but the built in DACs in Devialet are capable of decoding DSD. the problem is that the Devialet OS does not support it yer, so it is all about s/w update. so i guess encapsulating as DoP over FLAC might serve the purpose and trick Devialet OS that the file is FLAC to accept it and pass it on to the built-in DAC which is capable of decoding the raw encapsulated DSD data
Aurender X100L / Transrotor Crescendo TT / Denon DCD1520 / Macbook Pro >> D400 >> Martin Logan Montis
amabrok's system - Latest update (May 2015, Page 11, Post #109)

Dubai, UAE
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#34
The best you can hope for with Devialet is that the USB input will accept a DSD signal and convert it to PCM transparently. The whole system architecture would need revising for anything else and I can't see them doing that for a niche format when they are targeting John Lewis customers.
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#35
You can actually use Minimserver. It will auto encapsulate DSF to DoP format which should allow your player to playback accordingly.

It worked via 8Player on iPhone -> Hugo playing DSD.

Rgds
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#36
Here's a question that I don't think has been answered on here: what does DSD actually sound like? Perhaps those of you with more experience with DSD can chime in with thoughts?

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, 2 X SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

UK
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#37
I have 2 DSD capable DACs and a few DSD files, I also have the same file stored in many different resolutions from DSD to 16/44 flac. The DSD file is almost 20x bigger than this flac.
IME, the difference in sound is actually negligible compared to a typical difference between recordings, and since I would rather listen to a mediocre recording of a great performance than a perfect recording of a mediocre performance the difference for me is certainly not worth storing bigger files, even though storage is cheap. I am happy to store 24/96 rather than 16/44 btw, even though they are about 3x bigger.
Those whose main interested in their hifi is to get better and better potential audio quality from it may notice a difference that I didn't notice.
I came to the same conclusion with SACDon the odd disc where I did notice any difference it was minute.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44 Core, Job Pre/225, Goldmund PH2, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).
Oxfordshire

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#38
Some fantastic recordings are done solely via DSD which later re sampled accordingly.
Check 2L for such recording and compare.

I would love to dispute your findings.

In any case, try to listen to file based DSD/DxD files than to listen to SACD version.
I have been surprised myself.

Btw most files are re sampled version of lower sample rate. I would never rate them any better than original.


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