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Jplay
#31
(11-Nov-2014, 20:06)Antoine Wrote: It's not much work. Windows Server 2012 R2 installation doesn't differ much from Windows 8. The Audiophile Optimizer takes care of the system tuning and configuration. Only thing you have to do is install JPlay, JRiver/Foobar and a few hardware drivers (most are recognized by windows). From there it's set and forget, you turn the machine on and off using the power button. It boots in seconds from a SSD as it has to start very little.

JPlay Mini is an optional player provided by JPlay, you can keep using any player you like as long as it has an ASIO output capability. The JCat USB card is a PCI express interface card to which you connect the Devialet once. Don't see any family unfriendliness here.

No idea how the Totaldac d1 server compares to a fully tuned PC music server. I haven't read any comparisons. It has to do really well though to beat it. And this regardless of it's steep price of €4990. The Aurender W20 mentioned above is even three times as expensive, costing a mere €15.000€/$17.200 Exclamation

The thing is many of us on here simply don't have the knowledge and/or confidence to build our own PCs. That's why we outsource to someone like Vincent Brient at totaldac!

What is attractive about the totaldac solution is the combination of streamer and reclocker and also the attention to detail in the way that it's built. For example he has removed the LED on the ethernet port! Even his ethernet cable is so good it's replaced my AQ Diamond at the streamer end. This guy really knows what he's doing.

I have no doubt your computer sounds fantastic by the way! It might even be better that the d1 server, who knows?

Guillaume

PS I read on some of the other forums that the totaldac USB cable pretty much beats a lot of the competition. It has a network box that filters the cable of noise.
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, 2 X SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

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#32
(11-Nov-2014, 20:06)Antoine Wrote: From there it's set and forget,


Well, that is where my experience differs. My Jriver installation tends to crash. I've had this with 18, 19 and now 20. I updated W2012 R2 drivers this summer and that reduced crashing by maybe 75%, but I still get crashes. With JPlay it is even worse.
I don't mind working with computers, but I am more on Gillaume's side when it comes to usability and stability. I could maybe tolerate a few crashes a month for my self, but if a crash happens when my wife plays music and I am at work it's trouble!
*
Devialetless!
Roon, ROCK/Audiolense XO/Music on NAS/EtherRegen/RoPieee/USPCB/ISORegen/USPCB/Sound Devices USBPre2/Tannoy GOLD 8
250 Pro CI, MicroRendu(1.4), Mutec MC-3+USB
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#33
(11-Nov-2014, 20:27)GuillaumeB Wrote: The thing is many of us on here simply don't have the knowledge and/or confidence to build our own PCs. That's why we outsource to someone like Vincent Brient at totaldac!

I completely respect this Guillaume. Apologies to anyone who feels I come across as a pushing DIY fanatic! This is not my intention, all I like to do is share knowledge and personal experiences. What anyone does with that is fine with me. Sometimes I forget I grew up with computers from a young age and had an interest in them as well and this of course isn't the case for everybody.

(11-Nov-2014, 20:27)GuillaumeB Wrote: What is attractive about the totaldac solution is the combination of streamer and reclocker and also the attention to detail in the way that it's built. For example he has removed the LED on the ethernet port! Even his ethernet cable is so good it's replaced my AQ Diamond at the streamer end. This guy really knows what he's doing.

I have no doubt your computer sounds fantastic by the way! It might even be better that the d1 server, who knows?

Guillaume

PS I read on some of the other forums that the totaldac USB cable pretty much beats a lot of the competition. It has a network box that filters the cable of noise.

I'm quite sure Vincent Brient knows what he's doing. Funny BTW, I read about more designs that disable the ethernet LED's, of course all that blinking causes some noise. I already looked into disabling them as well but they are hardwired in to the hardware so no software driven way to switch them off. And I'd rather not hack and saw into my mainboard. Wink

I have read nothing but rave reviews/experiences about the TotalDac USB cable, it's price is certainly reasonable as well. Since I learned a few days ago I don't really need a dual head USB cable I'd like to try it myself as well and will probably do soon too. Smile

(11-Nov-2014, 20:57)ogs Wrote:
(11-Nov-2014, 20:06)Antoine Wrote: From there it's set and forget,


Well, that is where my experience differs. My Jriver installation tends to crash. I've had this with 18, 19 and now 20. I updated W2012 R2 drivers this summer and that reduced crashing by maybe 75%, but I still get crashes. With JPlay it is even worse.
I don't mind working with computers, but I am more on Gillaume's side when it comes to usability and stability. I could maybe tolerate a few crashes a month for my self, but if a crash happens when my wife plays music and I am at work it's trouble!

Sorry to hear that, and again I respect everyone's opinion.

I have been using JRiver since late v18, then v19, and now version 20 and I am completely honest when I say it has never crashed here, not once. The same goes for JPlay, but I have only recently started using that.

So it can be stable but of course it's important to use good, high quality computer parts. Also I have disabled any- and everything in JRiver that I don't need for music playback.
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Uptone Audio etherREGEN, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

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#34
(11-Nov-2014, 21:01)Antoine Wrote: Sorry to hear that, and again I respect everyone's opinion.

I have been using JRiver since late v18, then v19, and now version 20 and I am completely honest when I say it has never crashed here, not once. The same goes for JPlay, but I have only recently started using that.

So it can be stable but of course it's important to use good, high quality computer parts. Also I have disabled any- and everything in JRiver that I don't need for music playback.

It must be something with Windows and Intel NUC combined with Jiver. First I had an i3 version then i5 NUC. Both W7 and 2012R2. Same type of crash. I know many have the kind of stability with Jriver as you have and that is part of the good reputation Jriver has. So I guess I just have bad luck.. I know I've tried to fix the problems - posted on interact and gotten good responses, but not been able to find the cause.
*
Devialetless!
Roon, ROCK/Audiolense XO/Music on NAS/EtherRegen/RoPieee/USPCB/ISORegen/USPCB/Sound Devices USBPre2/Tannoy GOLD 8
250 Pro CI, MicroRendu(1.4), Mutec MC-3+USB
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#35
(11-Nov-2014, 18:34)Antoine Wrote: Hi Morten,

I haven't tested hibernate mode yet, I haven't even used JPlay mini yet as well. Don't know if I will as well as I'm not the kind of listener that works with playlists, I listen from song to song or album to album and can change from artist, genre etc. in a whim and want to be able to do so with absolute freedom and not more than a touch on my iPad. I really don't want to stand-up and remove a USB stick to stop playback which seems to be necessary for JPlay hibernate mode in a single PC setup. Also the Audiophile Optimizer software already limits the number of threads/services in server core mode to a bare minimum. If I ever switch to dual PC mode I might check it out. Smile

BR,

Antoine.

Hello Antoine.

I listen in exactly the same way that you do :-)

If you are willing to give Foobar a try you could use hibernation, you will then need to fork out the 3€ for the MonkeyMote APP on you iPad—it is used to control Foobar.

To clarify.

You can run a single PC setup where the PC is in hibernation mode.
The music will be controlled from you iPad with the MonkeyMote APP

The shortcoming is that the music must be stored on a “Local drive” I only have a small hard disk in my PC—hence I am experimenting with setting up a virtual hard disk connected to my NAS or Router, I think I got it to work, but if I don’t I will procure a 1TB SSD disk, I think the improvement in sound is worth it:-)

I learned this when I asked a question on the Jplay forum, it was a nice surprise and I have for good given up any plans to try JRiver.

http://jplay.eu/forum/computer-audio/foo...ith-jplay/

Kind regards Morten

(11-Nov-2014, 22:53)ogs Wrote:
(11-Nov-2014, 21:01)Antoine Wrote: Sorry to hear that, and again I respect everyone's opinion.

I have been using JRiver since late v18, then v19, and now version 20 and I am completely honest when I say it has never crashed here, not once. The same goes for JPlay, but I have only recently started using that.

So it can be stable but of course it's important to use good, high quality computer parts. Also I have disabled any- and everything in JRiver that I don't need for music playback.

It must be something with Windows and Intel NUC combined with Jiver. First I had an i3 version then i5 NUC. Both W7 and 2012R2. Same type of crash. I know many have the kind of stability with Jriver as you have and that is part of the good reputation Jriver has. So I guess I just have bad luck.. I know I've tried to fix the problems - posted on interact and gotten good responses, but not been able to find the cause.

Hello ogs

You could try Foobar, together with the MonkeyMote APP on you iPad—it is used to control Foobar.

I like it, easy to use and it has some good feaures.

The possibility to have lyrics on many songs
A good search function

To name a few :-)

Kind regards Morten
Devialet 200, Graditech Voima 1 Power cable, MIT shotgun S1.3 Speaker cable, Neeper Acoustics Perfect One Speakers
Aurender N100H, MIT Shotgun AC1 Power Cable, Audioquest Forest RJ45, Transparent Premium USB Cable
 
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#36
Thank you Morten, very helpful! Before settling with JRiver I already tried Foobar and also the MonkeyMoteHD app which is still present on my iPad. I will try hibernate sometime on a rainy sunday! Smile
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Uptone Audio etherREGEN, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

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#37
(11-Nov-2014, 20:27)GuillaumeB Wrote: What is attractive about the totaldac solution is the combination of streamer and reclocker and also the attention to detail in the way that it's built.

It seems logical to me that the Totaldac's clocking ability is what really sets it apart SQ wise. There are many reports of dedicated clocking devices improving CD transports, streamers etc.

The question is, is there anyway of truly optimising a PC's clocking ability, that is equivalent to a dedicated reclocker? I am sure that this must be possible?
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#38
The reclocking in the TotalDAC is necessary for converting USB to S/PDIF so it can output it over coax or AES/EBU.

Music server PC's that usually output USB are optimized to lower noise and are regularly outfitted with purpose built USB interface cards (like the JCAT I own, see specs here: http://jplay.eu/jcat/) with high levels of noise filtering and a high quality clock. This component can in fact also be seen as a 'reclocker' (but one operating fully in the digital domain), the data received by the card is reconstructed and outputted by the card using it's local clock.

Note that there's no S/PDIF involved in which the data stream has an embedded clock signal that has to be reconstructed by the receiver, this is where usually a 'reclocker' as known by audiophiles (Digital Lens, Wyred4Sound's Remedy, Apogee Big Ben, etc.) is used.

An interesting Q+A with Brient, the developer of TotalDAC. In this context especially Q+A 3 is relevant.

source: http://singaporehifi.blogspot.nl/2014/09...ilter.html
Quote:Mr. Brient kindly agreed to answer some questions I had about his cable and some other general questions. The questions and answers are reproduced in verbatim below :-

Q1. The totaldac usb cable/filter is described as containing "high performance filters to suppress digital pollutions coming from the computer or the music server.". Are both the data and power lines filtered ? Does the box provide galvanic isolation from the computer ?

A1. It filters both data and power. There is no galvanic isolation as this doesn't exist for high speed USB. It exists only for old non-asynchronous DACs with a 12Mbit/s USB bit rate, unable to do 192KHz/24.

Q2. The totaldac cable uses a single cable instead of the increasingly popular route of using separate cables for the data and power lines. Do you have any thoughts on this ?

A2. The filter box is placed very close to the DAC connector, so the cable separation is no critical. The long part of cable is before the filter.

Q3. Some audiophiles feel that USB (even if asynchronous) does not sound good as other connection methods like AES or coaxial. Many are using separate USB/SPDIF convertors, claiming better sound compared to direct hookup to their DAC's USB input. Do you think think this approach has any merit ?

A3. All computer approach need a computer bus to output the digital audio signal. USB, PCI and so on, all have the same difficulty due to the clock and pollution of the computer. There is no computer with true native spdif output, then can only fill and asynchronous fifo, just like the USB does, even if the fifo can be in the processor itself.

USB, even asynchronous, is a sensitive link, this is why the filter helps. For the best sound my customer use the d1-server using the USB cable/filter for the internal loop, then the signal is rebuilt again in AES-EBU in the asynchronous reclocker, then goes to the DAC via AES-EBU.

A computer straight to a USB DAC is not the best way.

All in all the difficulty is not especially the USB, it is the computer for audio, but optimisation are possible, I think that now the d1-server with its USB filter is better sounding than a CD drive.
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Uptone Audio etherREGEN, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

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#39
(12-Nov-2014, 20:13)Antoine Wrote: The reclocking in the TotalDAC is necessary for converting USB to S/PDIF so it can output it over coax or AES/EBU.

Music server PC's that usually output USB are optimized to lower noise and are regularly outfitted with purpose built USB interface cards (like the JCAT I own, see specs here: http://jplay.eu/jcat/) with high levels of noise filtering and a high quality clock. This component can in fact also be seen as a 'reclocker' (but one operating fully in the digital domain), the data received by the card is reconstructed and outputted by the card using it's local clock.

Note that there's no S/PDIF involved in which the data stream has an embedded clock signal that has to be reconstructed by the receiver, this is where usually a 'reclocker' as known by audiophiles (Digital Lens, Wyred4Sound's Remedy, Apogee Big Ben, etc.) is used.

An interesting Q+A with Brient, the developer of TotalDAC. In this context especially Q+A 3 is relevant.

source: http://singaporehifi.blogspot.nl/2014/09...ilter.html
Quote:Mr. Brient kindly agreed to answer some questions I had about his cable and some other general questions. The questions and answers are reproduced in verbatim below :-

Q1. The totaldac usb cable/filter is described as containing "high performance filters to suppress digital pollutions coming from the computer or the music server.". Are both the data and power lines filtered ? Does the box provide galvanic isolation from the computer ?

A1. It filters both data and power. There is no galvanic isolation as this doesn't exist for high speed USB. It exists only for old non-asynchronous DACs with a 12Mbit/s USB bit rate, unable to do 192KHz/24.

Q2. The totaldac cable uses a single cable instead of the increasingly popular route of using separate cables for the data and power lines. Do you have any thoughts on this ?

A2. The filter box is placed very close to the DAC connector, so the cable separation is no critical. The long part of cable is before the filter.

Q3. Some audiophiles feel that USB (even if asynchronous) does not sound good as other connection methods like AES or coaxial. Many are using separate USB/SPDIF convertors, claiming better sound compared to direct hookup to their DAC's USB input. Do you think think this approach has any merit ?

A3. All computer approach need a computer bus to output the digital audio signal. USB, PCI and so on, all have the same difficulty due to the clock and pollution of the computer. There is no computer with true native spdif output, then can only fill and asynchronous fifo, just like the USB does, even if the fifo can be in the processor itself.

USB, even asynchronous, is a sensitive link, this is why the filter helps. For the best sound my customer use the d1-server using the USB cable/filter for the internal loop, then the signal is rebuilt again in AES-EBU in the asynchronous reclocker, then goes to the DAC via AES-EBU.

A computer straight to a USB DAC is not the best way.

All in all the difficulty is not especially the USB, it is the computer for audio, but optimisation are possible, I think that now the d1-server with its USB filter is better sounding than a CD drive.

Wow thanks for sharing Antoine! Very interesting indeed. Smile

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, 2 X SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

UK
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#40
Hello, just a small update on my tests with Hibernation.

I only have one issue with it, when I listen to internet radio from Foobar I have to pull the USB thumb drive to stop the music. Otherwise it is perfect, when I listen to my own rips it works flawless, when I select a new album there is a few seconds pause, I assume that it close something down on the PC. But after this is works like when I was not using Hibernation, it just sounds better :-)

It have been some journey with Jplay, stating with the software to new USB cables, fiddling with virtual hard drives on the PC, but it have been worth it, I simply can’t stop smiling when I sit down and relax in front of the system.

However, I where to start today I will have chosen a PC like to one Antoine have, with Jcat USB card :-)

Kind regards Morten
Devialet 200, Graditech Voima 1 Power cable, MIT shotgun S1.3 Speaker cable, Neeper Acoustics Perfect One Speakers
Aurender N100H, MIT Shotgun AC1 Power Cable, Audioquest Forest RJ45, Transparent Premium USB Cable
 
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