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PCM v DSD, free test track
#1
We are often told that the differences between PCM and DSD are more to do with the quality of the source material rather than the format itself. With this in mind I thought it would be interested to compare an audiophile track that was recorded in both PCM and DSD simultaneously. The test track, Tony Overwater & Bert van den Brink's "Impromptu" was recorded live directly to DSD using the Tascam DA-3000 DSD recorder and simultaneously to PCM with the RME UFX.

You can find the test track here:

http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/idac2-sp...d-liaison/

The coupon code is ifimicroidac2

Which version do you prefer? 

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, 2 X SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

UK
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#2
I downloaded the files but the strange thing is that my Dev says it is 2 DSD files when I play them (same song) and somtimes it says both songs are 96kHz....maybe my Aries is gone bananas, very strange.
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#3
Here's a link to another one from Ayre:

http://www.ayre.com/insights_dsdvspcm.htm

It's got an explanation of why Charles Hansen thinks DSD is a dud as a home application.
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#4
(28-Jul-2015, 04:41)Pim van Vliet Wrote: It's got an explanation of why Charles Hansen thinks DSD is a dud as a home application.

I'm not sure Charles Hansen is going quite that far Pim, he sells DSD-capable DACs after all.  DSD evidently has a lot of disadvantages from a technical standpoint but it also has some advantages too, namely in the lack of filtering and therefore ringing. 

Thanks for your links, some really good material there!

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, 2 X SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

UK
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#5
(27-Jul-2015, 13:08)GuillaumeB Wrote: We are often told that the differences between PCM and DSD are more to do with the quality of the source material rather than the format itself. With this in mind I thought it would be interested to compare an audiophile track that was recorded in both PCM and DSD simultaneously. The test track, Tony Overwater & Bert van den Brink's "Impromptu" was recorded live directly to DSD using the Tascam DA-3000 DSD recorder and simultaneously to PCM with the RME UFX.

You can find the test track here:

http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/idac2-sp...d-liaison/

The coupon code is ifimicroidac2

Which version do you prefer? 

Guillaume

Using for comparison the song Improptu, which was recorded in both DSD and PCM,
I find that the WAV file (from the live PCM recording) has more energy, vibrance and details in it,
compared with the live DSD recording, which is very clinical, and lacks the detail and energy.

Also, the mixing seems to be different, as the DSD recording gives more weight to the piano.

The flac file, which I guess was derived from the wav file, is inferior to the wav, and I think that
I would rank it third.
D400; Stereolab Tombo Tron coaxial for master -> slave; Kubala-Sosna Elation interconnects, power, and speaker cables; Spendor D7 speakers; Bryston BDP-2 w. latest sound card & upgraded fuses; Bybee Stealth Power Purifier conditioner connected with IsoTek EVO3 Syncro SE to wall socket
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#6
(31-Jul-2015, 02:17)miro Wrote: Using for comparison the song Improptu, which was recorded in both DSD and PCM,
I find that the WAV file (from the live PCM recording) has more energy, vibrance and details in it,
compared with the live DSD recording, which is very clinical, and lacks the detail and energy.

Also, the mixing seems to be different, as the DSD recording gives more weight to the piano.

The flac file, which I guess was derived from the wav file, is inferior to the wav, and I think that
I would rank it third.

That's interesting I didn't test the WAV file, only the DSD v FLAC.

To my ears and in my system FLAC was superior! Yes more detail and energy. But the DSD did some interesting things too, for e.g. the timbres of the piano!

It did make we wonder if something was being lost in the DSD to PCM conversion process. I guess using something like the Ayre DAC to compare both would be a fairer comparison.

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, 2 X SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

UK
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#7
(31-Jul-2015, 10:22)GuillaumeB Wrote:
(31-Jul-2015, 02:17)miro Wrote: Using for comparison the song Improptu, which was recorded in both DSD and PCM,
I find that the WAV file (from the live PCM recording) has more energy, vibrance and details in it,
compared with the live DSD recording, which is very clinical, and lacks the detail and energy.

Also, the mixing seems to be different, as the DSD recording gives more weight to the piano.

The flac file, which I guess was derived from the wav file, is inferior to the wav, and I think that
I would rank it third.

That's interesting I didn't test the WAV file, only the DSD v FLAC.

To my ears and in my system FLAC was superior! Yes more detail and energy. But the DSD did some interesting things too, for e.g. the timbres of the piano!

It did make we wonder if something was being lost in the DSD to PCM conversion process. I guess using something like the Ayre DAC to compare both would be a fairer comparison.

Guillaume

Yes, the piano sounds very real in the DSD version, but the bass sounds like a guitar in the first 40-60 seconds, and
that is not how a bass sounds! :-)

Why are you talking about a DSD to PCM conversion? Note that the wav file was supposedly recorded directly by their PCM recording setup that recorded the same live performance.
As such, the wav file is the one from the real performance, and the flac file was derived from the wav file after that.

Do you mind listening to the wav file to compare with the other two, and share your opinion, Guillaume?
D400; Stereolab Tombo Tron coaxial for master -> slave; Kubala-Sosna Elation interconnects, power, and speaker cables; Spendor D7 speakers; Bryston BDP-2 w. latest sound card & upgraded fuses; Bybee Stealth Power Purifier conditioner connected with IsoTek EVO3 Syncro SE to wall socket
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#8
For what it is worth, I preferred the DSD in each case over the wav, and the wav over the flac. In the 1000 shades track it was the least clear cut. There was a large difference in levels between the DSD and the other files, so I had to set the volume 5dB or so higher on the DSD. To me, the DSD sounded more 'musical' and the wav/flac more 'digital'. Highly subjective though maybe worth more research. I have seen some commercial recordings from pentatone available as DSD ISO downloads and also as 24/96 PCM on different sites.
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#9
(31-Jul-2015, 02:17)miro Wrote:
(27-Jul-2015, 13:08)GuillaumeB Wrote: We are often told that the differences between PCM and DSD are more to do with the quality of the source material rather than the format itself. With this in mind I thought it would be interested to compare an audiophile track that was recorded in both PCM and DSD simultaneously. The test track, Tony Overwater & Bert van den Brink's "Impromptu" was recorded live directly to DSD using the Tascam DA-3000 DSD recorder and simultaneously to PCM with the RME UFX.

You can find the test track here:

http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/idac2-sp...d-liaison/

The coupon code is ifimicroidac2

Which version do you prefer? 

Guillaume

Using for comparison the song Improptu, which was recorded in both DSD and PCM,
I find that the WAV file (from the live PCM recording) has more energy, vibrance and details in it,
compared with the live DSD recording, which is very clinical, and lacks the detail and energy.

Also, the mixing seems to be different, as the DSD recording gives more weight to the piano.

The flac file, which I guess was derived from the wav file, is inferior to the wav, and I think that
I would rank it third.
[Image: tony-bert-300v1.jpg]I  think that probably the DSD recording has no editing while the WAV recording has had the advantage of at a later time being taken care off, adjusting levels, and equalisation.
I have bought the Waw, very very impressive sound quality.
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