Possible new competitor to the 800?

[Confused]

SAM is a big factor I think.  I know some prefer not to use it, and indeed it is not available for some speakers.  For me, I really like the improvement SAM brings, so in considering an alternative, I have to consider how much better an amp would need to be in other areas for me to ditch Devialet & SAM for one of those alternatives.

It's interesting but in my own setup pressing the SAM button is not a "night and day" change although it depends massively on the material being played of course. 

With electronic/dance music I love it. No complaints whatsoever, it's genius. 

With other music genres I find it can add a slight artificiality or unnaturalness to the sound, again it depends a bit on the music so I can't generalise here. This makes me wonder if all the additional processing in the DSP isn't affecting things (in a very subtle way of course!). With dance music the timbres of the electronic instruments are a bit more basic shall we say...

My default mode is generally to leave SAM "on" and at 100% but experimenting with switching SAM off has been interesting, to say the least. 

Anyway I'm not complaining, far from it. It's great to be able to switch it on and off.

Guillaume

Guillaume - I would like to clarify your observations here.  To start, I can say that that running 8.1.3 SAM V2 I too have very similar observations, although perhaps a little more obvious that you are describing.  With some music, bass drum sounds (and we are talking real drum sounds here, not electronic) just don't sound right with SAM.  As an example I was listening to a track in my car last week, now my car stereo is reasonable quality but not the last word in audio reproduction, but I was struck by the drums in one particular track.  Listening to this at home, it was definately better, more realistic with SAM off, with SAM on it sounded a little artificial, as if the natural decay following the initial bass hit was being exaggerated.  These are fairly subbtle observations, it doesn't sound so obviously "wrong" as when I initially had SAM 2 issues, but the effects are there if you listen.

My specific question for yourself, are you own observations related to SAM in the 8.x.x era only, or did you find the same electronic vs acoustic music SAM biases back in the 7.x.x. days?  That is, are these your traditional views of SAM, or observations formed or perhaps reinforced with SAM 2?

[GuillaumeB]

SAM is a big factor I think.  I know some prefer not to use it, and indeed it is not available for some speakers.  For me, I really like the improvement SAM brings, so in considering an alternative, I have to consider how much better an amp would need to be in other areas for me to ditch Devialet & SAM for one of those alternatives.

It's interesting but in my own setup pressing the SAM button is not a "night and day" change although it depends massively on the material being played of course. 

With electronic/dance music I love it. No complaints whatsoever, it's genius. 

With other music genres I find it can add a slight artificiality or unnaturalness to the sound, again it depends a bit on the music so I can't generalise here. This makes me wonder if all the additional processing in the DSP isn't affecting things (in a very subtle way of course!). With dance music the timbres of the electronic instruments are a bit more basic shall we say...

My default mode is generally to leave SAM "on" and at 100% but experimenting with switching SAM off has been interesting, to say the least. 

Anyway I'm not complaining, far from it. It's great to be able to switch it on and off.

Guillaume

Guillaume - I would like to clarify your observations here.  To start, I can say that that running 8.1.3 SAM V2 I too have very similar observations, although perhaps a little more obvious that you are describing.  With some music, bass drum sounds (and we are talking real drum sounds here, not electronic) just don't sound right with SAM.  As an example I was listening to a track in my car last week, now my car stereo is reasonable quality but not the last word in audio reproduction, but I was struck by the drums in one particular track.  Listening to this at home, it was definately better, more realistic with SAM off, with SAM on it sounded a little artificial, as if the natural decay following the initial bass hit was being exaggerated.  These are fairly subbtle observations, it doesn't sound so obviously "wrong" as when I initially had SAM 2 issues, but the effects are there if you listen.

My specific question for yourself, are you own observations related to SAM in the 8.x.x era only, or did you find the same electronic vs acoustic music SAM biases back in the 7.x.x. days?  That is, are these your traditional views of SAM, or observations formed or perhaps reinforced with SAM 2?

That's a very good question Confused! I think I became a bit more aware of this in the 8.x.x era. SAM definitely seems more subtle in my system now, for instance I would never dream of dialling it out now... it stays at 100%!

Guillaume

[Mikeeo]

SAM is a big factor I think.  I know some prefer not to use it, and indeed it is not available for some speakers.  For me, I really like the improvement SAM brings, so in considering an alternative, I have to consider how much better an amp would need to be in other areas for me to ditch Devialet & SAM for one of those alternatives.

It's interesting but in my own setup pressing the SAM button is not a "night and day" change although it depends massively on the material being played of course. 

With electronic/dance music I love it. No complaints whatsoever, it's genius. 

With other music genres I find it can add a slight artificiality or unnaturalness to the sound, again it depends a bit on the music so I can't generalise here. This makes me wonder if all the additional processing in the DSP isn't affecting things (in a very subtle way of course!). With dance music the timbres of the electronic instruments are a bit more basic shall we say...

My default mode is generally to leave SAM "on" and at 100% but experimenting with switching SAM off has been interesting, to say the least. 

Anyway I'm not complaining, far from it. It's great to be able to switch it on and off.

Guillaume

Guillaume - I would like to clarify your observations here.  To start, I can say that that running 8.1.3 SAM V2 I too have very similar observations, although perhaps a little more obvious that you are describing.  With some music, bass drum sounds (and we are talking real drum sounds here, not electronic) just don't sound right with SAM.  As an example I was listening to a track in my car last week, now my car stereo is reasonable quality but not the last word in audio reproduction, but I was struck by the drums in one particular track.  Listening to this at home, it was definately better, more realistic with SAM off, with SAM on it sounded a little artificial, as if the natural decay following the initial bass hit was being exaggerated.  These are fairly subbtle observations, it doesn't sound so obviously "wrong" as when I initially had SAM 2 issues, but the effects are there if you listen.

My specific question for yourself, are you own observations related to SAM in the 8.x.x era only, or did you find the same electronic vs acoustic music SAM biases back in the 7.x.x. days?  That is, are these your traditional views of SAM, or observations formed or perhaps reinforced with SAM 2?

That's a very good question Confused! I think I became a bit more aware of this in the 8.x.x era. SAM definitely seems more subtle in my system now, for instance I would never dream of dialling it out now... it stays at 100%!

Guillaume

100% here too, I really love this latest version/Mike

[Confused]

Thanks for the feedback Guillaume & Mike. Although I think we are experiencing different things now with SAM V2, for example I was almost always happy with SAM 100% in the "old" days, now 50% is just about as high as I will go. I think it's a case of the KEF Blade SAM profile not making the transition to SAM V2 very well.

[Rufus McDufus]

I can't remember if I mentioned already... I logged a ticket with Devialet a while ago as I was worried SAM isn't sounding so good with my Raidho C-1.1s since the 8.x firmware was introduced. Initially I was told v2 SAM is 'more sophisticated'. I do find less bass boom so figured it was just me not being sophisticated enough to appreciate it. Some time later and still not that happy I logged another ticket last week. Apparently some v1 SAM profiles are being revisited and the CS rep mentioned he'd heard Raidho profiles being talked about. It sounds like they might have had some problems migrating v1 SAM profiles to the v2 format. The engineer responsible is back from holiday tomorrow so will be interesting if I can get some feedback.

[Confused]

I can't remember if I mentioned already... I logged a ticket with Devialet a while ago as I was worried SAM isn't sounding so good with my Raidho C-1.1s since the 8.x firmware was introduced. Initially I was told v2 SAM is 'more sophisticated'. I do find less bass boom so figured it was just me not being sophisticated enough to appreciate it. Some time later and still not that happy I logged another ticket last week. Apparently some v1 SAM profiles are being revisited and the CS rep mentioned he'd heard Raidho profiles being talked about. It sounds like they might have had some problems migrating v1 SAM profiles to the v2 format. The engineer responsible is back from holiday tomorrow so will be interesting if I can get some feedback.

Thanks Rufus!  It's good to know it's not just me having issues.  I too have lodged a query with Devialet, although specifically related if it is worth getting "old" SAM profiles re-done with SAM Lab, relates to the same thing though, I used to be happy with SAM, now I'm not.  It looks like Monsieur SAM Engineer is in for a busy week back from holiday.....

[Mikeeo]

Talking about competitor!

I had the Aavik U-300 at home and now Stefan has it.

Conclusion: It beat D400 on all points and by quite a margin, in my system that is. Ok, so I have Raidho speakers and perhaps some 'house' synergy. 
The riaa section is over the top amazing, never heard that good vinyl replay before. But also digital electrical as optical works better than Devialet, in my system that is. There is absolutely no background noise.
In general the Aavik is tighter, better resolved over the whole music spectra, bigger sound scape, coherence and superb stereo focus (but that was expected from the never perfect stereo from the Devialet mono). 
Dynamics are a bit better and Aaviks is rhythmically better.
Bass is not one tone any longer but of course 1 octave less as Aavik has no SAM function, but the bass produced is so resolved and kicking I can be without the last octave.
Devialet sounds boxed in in comparison. 
As a vinyl first person the Aavik has a world class riaa and it totally crushed Devialet.

Even wife started tapping her feet and nodding head, something that is, I guess, is a testament to the musicality of the Aavik.
Devialet D400 is no slouch at all but in comparison it was no contest.

Aavik has 300W/8 ohm, 600W/4 ohm, 1200W/2 ohm, 2400W/1 ohm whereof 2 and 1 ohm only transient, maybe that extra power was needed in my system!?

At Stefans place the difference where more about taste than big difference, though slightly (to my ears) tighter grip, bigger sound scape, somewhat more relaxed and a bit leaner was the Aavik compared to Devialet 250 (Stefan sold one of his 250). Ansuz footers under Devialet gives bigger SQ hike than going mono so all you Dev people try out Ansuz footers these should be considered mandatory for a fantastic SQ hike/fix albeit at a considerable price. So in Stefans system with Wilson Sasha2 and 250 the diff was more like apples and pears.

Well I say bye Devialet for this time and welcome Aavik!

While waiting for the Aavik I'll be Devialetting myself a bit more.

/Mike

[hk6230]

Cool. It is a Class D amplifier. How much is selling for?

[Damon]

Its not a budget item: about 24,000 euro or $30,000 USD. I say get a D120 and settle into the world of reason.

[hk6230]

Its not a budget item: about 24,000 euro or $30,000 USD. I say get a D120 and settle into the world of reason.

Really. It cost so much? Hmm, I will stick with my D200.