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MM Phono Sounds Dull?
#1
got me a dream TT today. More here http://www.avforums.co.za/index.php/topic,48128.0.html

My arm Funk FXR II does not fit the arm board so a susbstitute arm was dropped in whilst the other arm board gets drilled. The replacement arm has a MM Ortofon 510 cart on it. My arm has a koetsu rosewood platinum (MC cart)

With the new arm/cart a new and card with MM settings installed and the sound was DULL. My mate described it best when he said it was like a duvet was thrown over the music

Checked the settings all good tried again but still the sound was dull

A quick trip to get an external phonostage and voila the sound snapped back from dull

I can't get my head round this one - like it is a software problem. It has also go me doubting the sound with the MC cart

Anybody else experience something similar - any advice before I log a call with Devialet?
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#2
I can vouch that the phono stage sounds excellent with an MC cartridge, so you do not need to worry about that one. As for the issue with the MC, I have no idea, but for sure this does not sound right at all. I presume you have tried redoing the configurations cards etc? It certainly should not sound dull.
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#3
(24-Sep-2015, 18:51)Confused Wrote: I can vouch that the phono stage sounds excellent with an MC cartridge, so you do not need to worry about that one.  As for the issue with the MC, I have no idea, but for sure this does not sound right at all.  I presume you have tried redoing the configurations cards etc?  It certainly should not sound dull.


First tried to amend on the fly using RAM - no success

Then redid config card - twice and still no success

I am worried

Downside is i leave tomorrow for a short break so realistically can only address this in the second week of October
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#4
(24-Sep-2015, 18:51)Confused Wrote: I can vouch that the phono stage sounds excellent with an MC cartridge, so you do not need to worry about that one.  As for the issue with the MC, I have no idea, but for sure this does not sound right at all.  I presume you have tried redoing the configurations cards etc?  It certainly should not sound dull.

(24-Sep-2015, 20:22)colonel66 Wrote:
(24-Sep-2015, 18:51)Confused Wrote: I can vouch that the phono stage sounds excellent with an MC cartridge, so you do not need to worry about that one.  As for the issue with the MC, I have no idea, but for sure this does not sound right at all.  I presume you have tried redoing the configurations cards etc?  It certainly should not sound dull.


First tried to amend on the fly using RAM - no success

Then redid config card - twice and still no success

I am worried

Downside is i leave tomorrow for a short break so realistically can only address this in the second week of October

Hi! I experience exactly the same thing on my 120. Everything with MM settings sound dull. Tried everything you did but nothing helped. Hooked up an external phono stage and everything sounded as it should. Don't own a MC pickup so I haven't tested that.

Don't really know what to make out of this. Everything I read about the phono stage was only praises.

Did you manage to solve your problems?
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#5
Sounds very strange.  What R/C loading are you setting in the configurator?  According to Ortofon's specifications the recommended settings are 470 ohms, 100-400 pF.  The 470 ohms surprised me - could it be a misprint and 47 kohms is really the expected value - I thought that was more typical for a moving magnet cartridge, and low resistance was used for moving coils?  Anyway, it might be worth a try with "high" loading - can't do any harm, I'd have thought...

Or maybe the phono stage is not honouring the configuration you've set....?

[Just realised the OP was in September so probably solved long ago.  Left my reply in case it might be helpful.]
Roon (Mac Mini), Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Expert 1000 Pro CI, Kaiser Chiara
Warwickshire, UK
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#6
Hi 

My solution to the problem was to insert a hashimoto SUT before the Devialet and then use the MM settings on the phono stage

Glorious bloody glorious - especially now that i have the raven 10.5 tonearm as well
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#7
(10-Feb-2016, 07:55)colonel66 Wrote: Hi 

My solution to the problem was to insert a hashimoto SUT before the Devialet and then use the MM settings on the phono stage

Glorious bloody glorious - especially now that i have the raven 10.5 tonearm as well

Thanks for the input! So the Phono stage at MM settings on the Devialet is pretty much useless without an external one? 

I tried it on two different turntables and two different cartridges and both sounded lifeless and dull when connected (with correct settings) directly to the Devielat. Borrowed a Clear Audio phono stage and it sounded really good with both turntables.

Can the built in Phone stage really be this bad at MM settings?
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#8
I use the MM input and an Ortofon T3000 SUT with my A90 and Jubilee cartridges and have done so since I used a D-Premier.
My 800 MM input does not sound dull.

I haven't used a MM for some years but it was an Ortofon which was not dull and worked fine into a normal 47kohm phono input.

MM cartridges are much more sensitive to loading than MC so I would experiment a bit more whilst playing using whateve stupid 3 letter abreviated function Devialet call the adjust on the fly phono settings. I can never remember any of them and their use is the only thing I don't like about Devialet. Sad
The impedance must be high, and I would start with zero added capacitance too since the recommended level, 200-400pF could well be provided by the phono cable.

One thing I found when I tried it a few months ago was that changing the phono settings in the configurator did not change the settings on the amplifier. Now that was maybe not with the current version of the Configurator or amp firmware but it is certainly worth adjusting via the remote on the fly to be sure IMO.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44 Core, Job Pre/225, Goldmund PH2, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).
Oxfordshire

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#9
(10-Feb-2016, 08:22)markovesterinen Wrote:
(10-Feb-2016, 07:55)colonel66 Wrote: Hi 

My solution to the problem was to insert a hashimoto SUT before the Devialet and then use the MM settings on the phono stage

Glorious bloody glorious - especially now that i have the raven 10.5 tonearm as well

Thanks for the input! So the Phono stage at MM settings on the Devialet is pretty much useless without an external one? 

I tried it on two different turntables and two different cartridges and both sounded lifeless and dull when connected (with correct settings) directly to the Devielat. Borrowed a Clear Audio phono stage and it sounded really good with both turntables.

Can the built in Phone stage really be this bad at MM settings?

Since both col66 and I use the MM input with excellent results this is not a logical conclusion. One only uses a step up transformer with a MC cartridge, not needed for MM, and if the MM input was dull it would be dull for col66 and I, which it clearly is not.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44 Core, Job Pre/225, Goldmund PH2, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).
Oxfordshire

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#10
(10-Feb-2016, 10:27)f1eng Wrote:
(10-Feb-2016, 08:22)markovesterinen Wrote:
(10-Feb-2016, 07:55)colonel66 Wrote: Hi 

My solution to the problem was to insert a hashimoto SUT before the Devialet and then use the MM settings on the phono stage

Glorious bloody glorious - especially now that i have the raven 10.5 tonearm as well

Thanks for the input! So the Phono stage at MM settings on the Devialet is pretty much useless without an external one? 

I tried it on two different turntables and two different cartridges and both sounded lifeless and dull when connected (with correct settings) directly to the Devielat. Borrowed a Clear Audio phono stage and it sounded really good with both turntables.

Can the built in Phone stage really be this bad at MM settings?

Since both col66 and I use the MM input with excellent results this is not a logical conclusion. One only uses a step up transformer with a MC cartridge, not needed for MM, and if the MM input was dull it would be dull for col66 and I, which it clearly is not.
I know its not a logical conclusion and i hope its not the right one too. But the problem persist and I'm staring to think that maybe there is difference on the phono boards on the 120 (which is the one i have) and the other models?

The clear differences is that the 120 lacks many of the adjustments that can be made on the phone stage on the 200 model for an example. I can only choose MM or MC and regulate the Maximum output RMS.

I will take my amp to the dealer and try to connect it to a turntable with MC cartridge and see how that goes.
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