Devialet in a state of chaos

[sleach]

You're forgetting that for a lot of people everything went right "out of the box". People experiencing problems are rather likely to use this forum to fix issues, but some happy customers would never register here. So opinions are quite biased here, due to the purpose itself of the forum. I would not rely solely on it, but get the trial and make my mind. I don't understand this forum as an "audiophile review" making buying recommendations but as an exchange of various experiences.

Sorry, can't really see the "state of chaos" discussed here.

Don't apologise! I'll be very happy to learn that devialet is not in chaos, I really love my phantoms and look forward to future upgrades to software and hardware!

I agree with you that a forum like this does bring people looking to solve problems they might be experiencing. But I think that is more like selection bias than biased opinions from the posters. Also, I think the product is still quite new and has not a huge number of users yet. So problems that people experience can seem strange and intractable because there just isn't a big knowledge base yet. I'm sure that we users and Devialet will learn the idiosyncrasies and workarounds typical of any developing software and the whole experience will become smoother and more stable.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NickB]

Yes I'm afraid the old 10 or 20 to 1 rule still runs true. For every person who reports a positive response there are usually 10 to 20 who report a bad one.

[Hifi_swlon]

You're forgetting that for a lot of people everything went right "out of the box". People experiencing problems are rather likely to use this forum to fix issues, but some happy customers would never register here. So opinions are quite biased here, due to the purpose itself of the forum.
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Sorry, can't really see the "state of chaos" discussed here.

This is exactly the line spelt out to me by Devialet themselves when I mentioned this site at a Phantom demo! Followed by a 'but we always welcome feedback on our products', which was then followed by pretty much dismissing anything I said….

I don't think this site represents just those who are suffering problems - it seems really quite balanced and people openly enthuse about their products. But the volume of 'problem' traffic, both for the Expert line and now Phantoms, seems to be increasing and probably only represents a small portion of people with issues. Many will not be aware of this site and suffer in silence, and of course if they contact Devialet they will be made to feel like their problems don't exist!

This forum's very existence (while Devialet themselves offer nothing) is in itself a pointer of how they treat their customers.  All of my teething problems with the D200 were researched and fixed via this site - in fact had I believed this forum versus Devialet's own marketing, I would have probably never bought my D200 - I just couldn't believe they would be selling a product where a key component was known not to work reliably (I'm talking Air of course), and this site must have just been a few 'moaning people'.  

There are members on this forum that have been with Devialet since the outset, many of whom I'm sure have had no issues with their Devialets. However, there are people who have never been able to use their systems as intended since the outset, and these issues can't all be put down to 'beyond Devialet's control'. If the technology needs a specific environment in which to run without issues, then that should be laid out clearly upfront.

The very fact that Air is still not working and there's been a year with no updates or communications, says it all to me. And each time I contact support what do I get as a reply? Total sidestepping of any hard questions, and a standard reply of 'what settings are you using, we'd be happy to help you resolve you Air issues'. Even after having admitted that it doesn't work in previous emails, and that a fix is 'being worked on' (which I think we can safely assume isn't the case - not by anyone that knows what they're doing anyway).

Even at my (second) Phantom demo by Devialet themselves there were issues - Spark just wasn't right to me and was horrible to use and didnt respond correctly. Resulting in control being taken over and a 'yes, it doesn't work quite like that there are a few things still to iron out' all very matter of fact. That demo, combined with what I read here, and what I've experienced with my 200, made me decide to walk away from Phantom as a consideration.

Products being rushed out, missing and slipping release dates, specs changing last minute on products, software not working as intended at the outset or sometime afterwards, lack of good or consistent customer support, stagnated development on applications, fixation on marketing hype, zero communication or interaction with user base. And Air - that still doesn't work despite many alleged attempts and now a long pause with absolutely no progress.

The chaos is there.

Doesn't mean there's nothing good about the brand or they don't make amazing products, but it's not a well run and managed company at the moment, and they don't look after their customers.

If you stick around with Devialet long enough, perhaps you will see it but hopefully not - if you're a happy customer without issues I'm pleased for you. Hopefully more of us will be able to join you down the road…..

[Womaz]

You're forgetting that for a lot of people everything went right "out of the box". People experiencing problems are rather likely to use this forum to fix issues, but some happy customers would never register here. So opinions are quite biased here, due to the purpose itself of the forum.
.
.

Sorry, can't really see the "state of chaos" discussed here.

This is exactly the line spelt out to me by Devialet themselves when I mentioned this site at a Phantom demo!  Followed by a 'but we always welcome feedback on our products', which was then followed by pretty much dismissing anything I said….

I don't think this site represents just those who are suffering problems - it seems really quite balanced and people openly enthuse about their products.  But the volume of  'problem' traffic, both for the Expert line and now Phantoms, seems to be increasing and probably only represents a small portion of people with issues.  Many will not be aware of this site and suffer in silence, and of course if they contact Devialet they will be made to feel like their problems don't exist!

This forum's very existence (while Devialet themselves offer nothing) is in itself a pointer of how they treat their customers.  All of my teething problems with the D200 were researched and fixed via this site - in fact had I believed this forum versus Devialet's own marketing, I would have probably never bought my D200 - I just couldn't believe they would be selling a product where a key component was known not to work reliably (I'm talking Air of course), and this site must have just been a few 'moaning people'.  

There are members on this forum that have been with Devialet since the outset, many of whom I'm sure have had no issues with their Devialets. However, there are people who have never been able to use their systems as intended since the outset, and these issues can't all be put down to 'beyond Devialet's control'. If the technology needs a specific environment in which to run without issues, then that should be laid out clearly upfront.

The very fact that Air is still not working and there's been a year with no updates or communications, says it all to me.  And each time I contact support what do I get as a reply?  Total sidestepping of any hard questions, and a standard reply of 'what settings are you using, we'd be happy to help you resolve you Air issues'.  Even after having admitted that it doesn't work in previous emails, and that a fix is 'being worked on' (which I think we can safely assume isn't the case - not by anyone that knows what they're doing anyway).  

Even at my (second) Phantom demo by Devialet themselves there were issues - Spark just wasn't right to me and was horrible to use and didnt respond correctly.  Resulting in control being taken over and a 'yes, it doesn't work quite like that there are a few things still to iron out' all very matter of fact.  That demo, combined with what I read here, and what I've experienced with my 200, made me decide to walk away from Phantom as a consideration.

Products being rushed out, missing and slipping release dates, specs changing last minute on products, software not working as intended at the outset or sometime afterwards, lack of good or consistent customer support, stagnated development on applications, fixation on marketing hype, zero communication or interaction with user base.  And Air - that still doesn't work despite many alleged attempts and now a long pause with absolutely no progress.  

The chaos is there.  

Doesn't mean there's nothing good about the brand or they don't make amazing products, but it's not a well run and managed company at the moment, and they don't look after their customers.

If you stick around with Devialet long enough, perhaps you will see it but hopefully not - if you're a happy customer without issues I'm pleased for you. Hopefully more of us will be able to join you down the road…..

Some excellent points raised here, great post. To me I sum it up as Devialet overpromise and underdeliver.

[Mohmm]

"I am probably one of those mentioned, as I've shied away from purchasing because of the well documented issues, particularly with the Phantom and Dialog.
If the product doesn't work reliably, out of the box and continue to work reliably, then Devialet's reputation will rapidly become a bad one."

Felix: Do your name some justice and be happy (felix). Many posters populating this forum have a rather specific kind of personality that's not very helpful when it comes to assessing the merits and shortcomings of Devialet's products. Shortcomings will always dominate and the enterprise denigrated. I use a Devialet Premier>upgraded to D800 since the very beginning and I am extremely happy after decades of changing my gear on a regular basis. For years now I rest in peace and just listen to my music, while streaming it over ethernet or AES/EBU.

I am not affiliated with the firm in any way.

[Georgethesixth]

"I am probably one of those mentioned, as I've shied away from purchasing because of the well documented issues, particularly with the Phantom and Dialog.
If the product doesn't work reliably, out of the box and continue to work reliably, then Devialet's reputation will rapidly become a bad one."

Felix: Do your name some justice and be happy (felix). Many posters populating this forum have a rather specific kind of personality that's not very helpful when it comes to assessing the merits and shortcomings of Devialet's products. Shortcomings will always dominate and the enterprise denigrated. I use a Devialet Premier>upgraded to D800 since the very beginning and I am extremely happy after decades of changing my gear on a regular basis. For years now I rest in peace and just listen to my music, while streaming it over ethernet or AES/EBU.

I am not affiliated with the firm in any way.

I'm very sorry but what you are stating is simply not the truth.  This forum was started by Devialet enthusiasts and aficionados who wanted to get the most of their cherished product. The assumption that the negatives will allways dominate is insulting. It is a fan based forum that would never have had such a success rate in the first place if Devialet had provided a decent support site.

If you read the first mentionings of the AIR issue, you see lots of people investing time and asking Devialet what they can do to help.  The main issue is that Devialet simply refused to engage in a meaningful conversation about it and would not even issue some guidance on how to avoid the problem. I have several support cases simply asking : Specify a Windows setup that will work. You don't have to explain why or when.'  Devialet refused to answer. I paid about 1000 euro's for Air.  Now it is free, but I think that is since april 2014.

The people here are not dumb : we don't pay money to buy a product in the hope that the company fails. 

[NickB]

"I am probably one of those mentioned, as I've shied away from purchasing because of the well documented issues, particularly with the Phantom and Dialog.
If the product doesn't work reliably, out of the box and continue to work reliably, then Devialet's reputation will rapidly become a bad one."

Felix: Do your name some justice and be happy (felix). Many posters populating this forum have a rather specific kind of personality that's not very helpful when it comes to assessing the merits and shortcomings of Devialet's products. Shortcomings will always dominate and the enterprise denigrated. I use a Devialet Premier>upgraded to D800 since the very beginning and I am extremely happy after decades of changing my gear on a regular basis. For years now I rest in peace and just listen to my music, while streaming it over ethernet or AES/EBU.

I am not affiliated with the firm in any way.

I'm very sorry but what you are stating is simply not the truth.  This forum was started by Devialet enthusiasts and aficionados who wanted to get the most of their cherished product. The assumption that the negatives will allways dominate is insulting. It is a fan based forum that would never have had such a success rate in the first place if Devialet had provided a decent support site.

If you read the first mentionings of the AIR issue, you see lots of people investing time and asking Devialet what they can do to help.  The main issue is that Devialet simply refused to engage in a meaningful conversation about it and would not even issue some guidance on how to avoid the problem. I have several support cases simply asking : Specify a Windows setup that will work. You don't have to explain why or when.'  Devialet refused to answer. I paid about 1000 euro's for Air.  Now it is free, but I think that is since april 2014.

The people here are not dumb : we don't pay money to buy a product in the hope that the company fails. 

Just to put the other side - since I upgraded to Win 10, AIR works perfectly and I have no drop outs or white noise. I can even swap resolutions while playing with no error.

How do you work out that AIR cost 1000 euro's anyway.

And he is correct people do come on here to moan.

[Manoet]

NickB said: "How do you work out that AIR cost 1000 euro's anyway."

Mmmm just a guess on my part but could have something to do with maybe that's exactly what Devialet up-charged for it at one time? Least that's how I interpret it from his very next sentence; "Now its free, but I think that is since April 2014." I wasn't here or shopping Devialet at that time but its by no means the first time I've seen it mentioned here.

[Georgethesixth]

Felix: Do your name some justice and be happy (felix). Many posters populating this forum have a rather specific kind of personality that's not very helpful when it comes to assessing the merits and shortcomings of Devialet's products. Shortcomings will always dominate and the enterprise denigrated. I use a Devialet Premier>upgraded to D800 since the very beginning and I am extremely happy after decades of changing my gear on a regular basis. For years now I rest in peace and just listen to my music, while streaming it over ethernet or AES/EBU.

I am not affiliated with the firm in any way.

I'm very sorry but what you are stating is simply not the truth.  This forum was started by Devialet enthusiasts and aficionados who wanted to get the most of their cherished product. The assumption that the negatives will allways dominate is insulting. It is a fan based forum that would never have had such a success rate in the first place if Devialet had provided a decent support site.

If you read the first mentionings of the AIR issue, you see lots of people investing time and asking Devialet what they can do to help.  The main issue is that Devialet simply refused to engage in a meaningful conversation about it and would not even issue some guidance on how to avoid the problem. I have several support cases simply asking : Specify a Windows setup that will work. You don't have to explain why or when.'  Devialet refused to answer. I paid about 1000 euro's for Air.  Now it is free, but I think that is since april 2014.

The people here are not dumb : we don't pay money to buy a product in the hope that the company fails. 

Just to put the other side - since I upgraded to Win 10, AIR works perfectly and I have no drop outs or white noise. I can even swap resolutions while playing with no error.

How do you work out that AIR cost 1000 euro's anyway.

And he is correct people do come on here to moan.

Windows 10 -  I created a ticket with Devialet about two weeks ago to ask which version I should install on Windows 10 : the beta or 2.3. Oceane (Now there is a name !  How can she ever live up to the expectations that name creates) replied with a big smile (I imagine) AIR was not supported on Windows 10... That was the reason I came back to this forum - not to moan and complain but to find out info about a common configuration, three months after launch date. And that is a reason to complain about.  "Computer says no" is not customer support but customer harassment.  I she had said "version whatever but you are on your own because it is not supported yet", that would have been customer support.

AIR - I actually paid a bit more if I remember well.  AIR was an early adopter tax I think.  If you don't believe me ask Devialet.  It was sold as a separate option at first.  Then, Devialet launched an action : if you bought a Devialet before end of March 2014 (if i remember the month well), you got AIR for free. And then suddenly, it was free for all.  

Moaning : it has been a long time since I logged in.  It is not as how I remember this forum.  In the beginning it was a club of enthusiasts who discussed and fans for whom Devialet could do nothing wrong.

[MountainGuy]

[quote pid='27828' dateline='1446189829']

This is just one example and from reading the other forum members problems here, I conclude for myself, that there are influences which are not within the control of DEVIALET and it is sad but true that beyond what is technical reasonably possible, DEVIALET can hardly be blamed for. They use a proprietary protocol, I think they should switch to an open standard with quality of service priorities. It is long time ago that I had to do with in depth network standards. QoS was just introduced so I can't judge whether this is reliable for RT-communications nowadays.


Cheers,

Krisp
[/quote]

That would be persuasive were it not for companies such as Sonos which have very little if any problems with their networks.