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AIR drop-outs - Mac OS X
#1
Hello all,

I've been experiencing a long-standing problem with occasional drop-outs streaming to my 200 via AIR from a MacBook Pro. This post describes the problem in some detail. If any one else has come across it then perhaps we can pool resources to investigate. I have reported this to Devialet (several months ago), so I will also update the thread if/when I get some specific response.

Symptoms:

Streaming will run continuously without problems for some period of time, often up to several hours, but will then stop for no apparent reason. When streaming stops, the Devialet AIR icon in the menu bar is greyed out (rather than black). Opening the menu bar app shows that the Devialet's network interface(s) are not present, and only the Disable Devialet AIR option is shown (and selected).

After a few seconds, the Devialet's network interface(s) show up in the app and can be selected. Streaming can then be re-started. However, it will probably stop again a few seconds later with the same symptoms as above.

If instead of trying to re-start streaming immediately I leave it for a few minutes before trying again, it will then usually re-start reliably and may run for a long time before dropping out again.

System environment:

Devialet 200 (firmware 6.0.10, 7.1.0 and now 7.1.1)
Devialet AIR v2.1.2
MacBook Pro (Core 2 Duo, early 2008), running OS X 10.8.5
Apple Time Capsule 2 TB (5th generation)
MBP wireless to Time Capsule
D200 wired to Time Capsule (i.e. streaming via Ethernet interface)

Observations:

The problem occurs equally when playing music stored locally on the Time Capsule (ALAC, 16/44) via iTunes, and when streaming from Qobuz HiFi (FLAC, 16/44) via the Qobuz desktop app.

As far as I can tell, occurrences of the problem don't correlate with other activity on the MBP, Time Capsule or other items on the network.

As far as I can tell, changing the target device buffer setting in AIR doesn't seem to affect the problem.

The Devialet's network interfaces respond to ping throughout, with no obvious change in round-trip delay. Keeping ping running doesn't seem to affect the problem positively or negatively.

The problem occurs whether the interfaces are configured to use DHCP or fixed IP addresses set by the configurator. (I had wondered whether it was triggered by the DHCP lease renewal but this seems not to be the case.)

Putting the Devialet into standby when the first drop-out occurs, or power-cycling it completely, doesn't seem to make any difference - streaming will still most likely drop out again a few seconds after I re-start it. This was most apparent after I installed the 7.1.1 firmware this afternoon: I got into a drop-out mode within about 30 seconds of powering up after completing the update.

Quitting and re-starting the Devialet AIR app when the first drop-out occurs doesn't seem to make any difference (as above). The same is true if I log out of my user account and log in again.

Re-starting the MBP when the first drop-out occurs does seem to make a difference: on re-starting AIR, it will then run reliably for quite some time.

Speculation:

It looks to me like a problem in the part of AIR that lives in the OS X kernel.


That's about as much as I've gathered at the moment. I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who's experienced anything similar.

The frustrating thing is that I've just about convinced myself that I get better sound quality via AIR than from my directly-connected Sonos…but the less-than-perfect reliability may be too high a price. Such is life.
Roon (Mac Mini), Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Expert 1000 Pro CI, Kaiser Chiara
Warwickshire, UK
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#2
Does the problem occur when your macbook is connected wireless or wired to your network? Or does it occur either way?
Devialet 200 <> Bowers & Wilkins 805 Diamond <> Aurender N100 <> Clearaudio Concept MC <> Audioquest Rocket 44/Coffee USB

The Netherlands
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#3
A different issue for sure, but there are some similarities to the "white noise" issue, discussed in another thread. The issue is different, but there are some interesting parallels in the pattern of behaviour.
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#4
@Eddye: I haven't done that experiment yet; it would certainly be a good thing to try, but logistically a bit of a fiddle. Thanks for encouraging me to get round to it.

@Confused: Yes, the similarities hadn't escaped me. The obvious difference is that in my case streaming stops, whereas in yours it continues playing white noise. (I think my symptoms are perhaps the lesser of two evils...) But maybe the underlying cause could be the same, with the different OS environments resulting in the difference in effect?
Roon (Mac Mini), Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Expert 1000 Pro CI, Kaiser Chiara
Warwickshire, UK
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#5
I believe that there may be some sort of an invisible file problem too. If I used Amarra on my machine back when Air first appeared I had all sorts of problems largely resolved by running the Amarra utility that cleans up the system prior to updating Amarra. I haven't used Amarra since then for that reason, I ran Amarra before the wireless modules and Air were released.
I do still (very rarely) get dropouts, but momentary. I haven't had a complete disconnection (greying of the icon and loss of "My Devialet") for a very long time.
I do find that doing a permissions repair fixes this usually, and the fix permissions report usually has a lot of items on it.
This probably doesn't help but is my experience with current software and firmware.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44 Core, Job Pre/225, Goldmund PH2, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).
Oxfordshire

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#6
Thanks - all suggestions gratefully received!

I haven't ever tried Amarra so hopefully that shouldn't be a concern. Nothing to lose by trying a repair permissions, though.
Roon (Mac Mini), Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Expert 1000 Pro CI, Kaiser Chiara
Warwickshire, UK
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#7
I did a small search on the net, and there are people complaining about early 2008 MBP's wifi dropping completely. Have you experienced drop-outs when surfing or copying files?
Devialet 200 <> Bowers & Wilkins 805 Diamond <> Aurender N100 <> Clearaudio Concept MC <> Audioquest Rocket 44/Coffee USB

The Netherlands
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#8
I've been running wi-fi AIR 2.1.2 for a couple of months now and have had no drop-outs at all using an interim solution - 2009 iMac running 10.6.8

I compared wi-fi and ethernet AIR and heard little if any difference so I'm using wi-fi for convenience.
IMac macOS 10.15.3 (no link to Devialet Sad ) / MacBook Pro Retina OS X 10.14.4 / Linn LP12 / Devialet 200 Wilson Benesch Discovery. 
Qobuz Desktop Latest Version / Audirvana 3.2.18 / Audirvana Remote / iTunes 12.9 / AIR 3.0.4 / Wi-Fi / FW 8.1.0 / SAM 50%
Cambridge, UK (Updated 27th February, 2020)
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#9
Hello Eddye - the wireless interface on my MBP has been rock solid, as far as one can tell from normal use. However, pretty much all "normal" use - web browsing, file transfer, etc. - is fairly insensitive to the network interface dropping the odd packet. On the other hand, it's quite likely that the AIR protocol would be sensitive to losing packets since it has to operate in real time.

I don't see any obvious loss of wi-fi connectivity when the problem strikes. For example, I can ping the Devialet continuously while all this goes on, and it keeps replying. But this is a fairly crude test - it may be that a few tens of milliseconds-worth of dropped packets could cause AIR to drop out, but wouldn't be visible in my ping test.

It would be helpful, and interesting, to know more about how the AIR protocol works at the network level. I know some of the guys having the "white noise" problem on Windows did a bit of network tracing so perhaps I should have a look at what they found.
Roon (Mac Mini), Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Expert 1000 Pro CI, Kaiser Chiara
Warwickshire, UK
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#10
By way of an update: I've managed to catch a network trace around the point where the drop-out occurs, and have sent it to Devialet.
Roon (Mac Mini), Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Expert 1000 Pro CI, Kaiser Chiara
Warwickshire, UK
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