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The jump from D200 to D400
#1
I am considering this for my next upgrade so looking for some guidance.
A part of me thinks that I may be better off using the cash to upgrade my speakers first as maybe a D400 into the PMC23s would be a bit of a mismacth?

For anyone who has added a companion to go to the D400, what were the differences , do you think it was worth the extra outlay?

I love the system i have but I am thinking that a move to D400 would just give me more of what I like. My system is a tad on the bright side at times, with a touch of siblance in some voices. I have been told on another thread that this is probably down to my room. Wooden floors and a minimilistic furniture arrangement. Would the 400 help with this or maybe even create more of an issue.

My room is 14ft x 23ft.

I have recently added the Melco which has improved things again, but I dont think it has tamed the brightness.

Any help or advice as always very much appreciated
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
Chord Qutest -- Niimbus US5 Pro Headphone amp —HifiMan HEK, Abyss 1266TC
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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#2
If you search I made the same questions before I got my companion. I have not regreted the upgrade to a 400.
Speakers:TAD CE-1. Amplifier: TAD M2500mk2. Digital: TAD DA1000-TX, Innuos Statement Next-gen, Innuos PhoenixNET.

Miscellaneous: Qobuz Studio, Ansuz Mainz 8 D2, Ansuz Darkz DTC, Tubulus Argentus ethernet cable, Tubulus Concentus USB cable, Tubulus Argentus V2 XLR cable, Tubulus Argentus V3 + V3 bass, iFi Nova powercables. 

Second system
Qobuz Studio -> Devialet Silver Phantom, Devialet Tree









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#3
Thanks I have now read that thread. So you think it made a significant upgrade
My main concern is should I focus on the speakers first? Even now spend wise they may be the weak point in my chain
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
Chord Qutest -- Niimbus US5 Pro Headphone amp —HifiMan HEK, Abyss 1266TC
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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#4
I have been re reading a few older threads and comments like make the treble smoother make me hopeful.
More interested in wether people think the speakers should be upgraded first.
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
Chord Qutest -- Niimbus US5 Pro Headphone amp —HifiMan HEK, Abyss 1266TC
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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#5
(08-Nov-2015, 20:37)Womaz Wrote: I have been re reading a few older threads and comments like make the treble smoother make me hopeful.
More interested in wether people think the speakers should be upgraded first.

Have you tried power conditioning? I found that some of what I thought was brightness was alleviated by power conditioning.
SYSTEM 1:Grimm MU-1 running Roon Server & Ready//Grimm TPM//GRIMM LS1be
SYSTEM 2: Antipodes DX Roon Server// MiniDSP// Grimm TPM// Dutch & Dutch 8C

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#6
No offense but you may be making the classic mistake: trying to solve acoustic issues by buying better equipment, cables and tweaks. Sure you may seem to alleviate the issue at first but soon as one gets used to the changed sound the issues, that of course were never gone, "return".

You could try to find a friend or someone else in your neighbourhood who can make some measurements of your room or invest in a measurement microphone yourself and use a (free) program like REW. Remembering your description of your room a RT60 measurement is likely to show way too high reverberation times.
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Uptone Audio etherREGEN, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands
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#7
(08-Nov-2015, 21:06)Antoine Wrote: No offense but you may be making the classic mistake: trying to solve acoustic issues by buying better equipment, cables and tweaks. Sure you may seem to alleviate the issue at first but soon as one gets used to the changed sound the issues, that of course were never gone, "return".

You could try to find a friend or someone else in your neighbourhood who can make some measurements of your room or invest in a measurement microphone yourself and use a (free) program like REW. Remembering your description of your room a RT60 measurement is likely to show way too high reverberation times.

I am thinking the upgrade as an upgrade , not just to calm the brightness ....but if it did this it would be a bonus.
I am guessing you think room treatment should be given a priority? I think it's a good point but again I would not know where to start with this. All being considered though
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
Chord Qutest -- Niimbus US5 Pro Headphone amp —HifiMan HEK, Abyss 1266TC
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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#8
(08-Nov-2015, 20:51)AaronG Wrote:
(08-Nov-2015, 20:37)Womaz Wrote: I have been re reading a few older threads and comments like make the treble smoother make me hopeful.
More interested in wether people think the speakers should be upgraded first.

Have you tried power conditioning? I found that some of what I thought was brightness was alleviated by power conditioning.

I will read up on this as would not know where to start. Always believed my system was not good enough to benefit from power conditioning, but I guess now I have the 200 maybe it is
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
Chord Qutest -- Niimbus US5 Pro Headphone amp —HifiMan HEK, Abyss 1266TC
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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#9
Thinking back to what I heard when I added a companion to my 200, the main change I remember is a sense that there was more of the things the 200 is good at: detail, balance, and musical "flow".  Strangely, given that on the face of it you're "just" doubling the power available to each speaker, I found this quite noticeable even when listening at very low volumes.  Like octaviars I think the change is worth the money I spent.

As to whether it will cure the sibilance/brightness you've described: hard to say, but "smoother treble" is not the first thing that comes to my mind when describing the upgrade to dual-mono.  Having re-read your thread about brightness, you mentioned that you hear it through headphones as well as through the loudspeakers.  That suggests the 400's additional "grip" over the PMC 23s won't help tame the brightness you're hearing.  But who knows; dual-mono might bring different benefits in different systems.

My advice, for what it's worth, is that if you're not entirely happy with the sound of your system at the moment, you'd be better off trying to sort that out first before upgrading to a 400.  Of course, if you can listen to a dual-mono set-up in your room first, and you like it, that's a different matter.  Otherwise it is a fairly expensive gamble.

You also said in the other thread you were experimenting with power cables.  Did you come to any conclusion about whether they helped?  Although I'm generally a bit of a "cable sceptic" I did play around with different power cables at one point and thought I heard some differences in sound so maybe there could be some "tuning" to be done there.   (If you fancy experimenting, you might want to get in touch with Mark at Sablon Audio, as I believe they developed a version of the Petit Corona cable specifically for the Devialet amplifiers.)

Do other people also find the system too bright?  You mentioned that you had some tinnitus which may be exacerbating the problem.

Why not let us know some examples of things that sound to bright to you, and some things that sound good -- maybe some of us can listen on our systems and come to a consensus about whether the brightness is in the recording?

Sorry I seem to be asking more questions than giving answers Smile  Hopefully some food for thought, anyway.
Roon (Mac Mini), Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Expert 1000 Pro CI, Kaiser Chiara
Warwickshire, UK
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#10
The tracks I am finding bright

Swim Deep - namaste
Birdy - skinny love
Foals - mountain at my gates
Loads more but these are the three I have been testing with

I have just stuck the original Dev power cable back in as it did appear to tame it very very slightly

I think the Melco has improved my overall sound quite substantially, bass especially is excellent and the open spacious sound, also clarity is excellent so this may also be making the brightness worse

My mates not really into their Hifi so have like docks, yes they think it's " tinny" their words not mine , but they would as its the detail they are hearing

i think there is brightness in the HP too but not as much.
I think the room is the issue by all accounts, but I also think the Deviallet may contribute as it is very detailed.
Finally yes it could be my ears as I do have tinnitus, when I sit in a quiet room my ears have a constant high pitch in them, been like that for years
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
Chord Qutest -- Niimbus US5 Pro Headphone amp —HifiMan HEK, Abyss 1266TC
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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