The jump from D200 to D400

[thumb5]

Conveniently the three tracks you mentioned are on Qobuz.  I'll give 'em a spin...

First impressions:

The Namaste track sounds pretty bright on my system, so I can imagine if your speakers have a tendency to brightness and your room has not much damping, it could get a bit abrasive.

I hear quite sibilant vocals on the Birdy track.  Not off-puttingly so, but I think it's there on the recording.

The Foals track seems to have the hi-hat(?) deliberately mixed very prominently.  It sounds OK to me until about 3:10 or so and then it all gets a bit messy.

[Womaz]

Conveniently the three tracks you mentioned are on Qobuz.  I'll give 'em a spin...

First impressions:

The Namaste track sounds pretty bright on my system, so I can imagine if your speakers have a tendency to brightness and your room has not much damping, it could get a bit abrasive.

I hear quite sibilant vocals on the Birdy track.  Not off-puttingly so, but I think it's there on the recording.

The Foals track seems to have the hi-hat(?) deliberately mixed very prominently.  It sounds OK to me until about 3:10 or so and then it all gets a bit messy.

That's interesting that you hear it too. I don't dislike the sound I get its just that I would like to tame it if I could.
Thanks for taking the time to help once again

[Womaz]

There is another forum member on here whose name escapes me and he has the PMC fact 8 and he has the same issues as me, regarding the brightness .......it's a funny old hobby this

[Hifi_swlon]

There is another forum member on here whose name escapes me and he has the PMC fact 8 and he has the same issues as me, regarding the brightness .......it's a funny old hobby this

That would be me I think

I've actually decided to try and sell my Facts.

The brightness is one issue. They are the best speakers I've ever owned, but they are very revealing and I think they'd really benefit from a better source, and a properly setup room. They didn't sound bright when I demo'd them they sounded amazing, so I think the environment just isn't letting them shine.

The other issue is the size. They're just a bit too big for my living room, especially the depth, so I think it's time to try something else.

They'll be in the classifieds any time now, although I may just part-ex them if I can get a home demo of something that suits the room better.

I also briefly considered trying a 400 upgrade, but I don't really want to add any more boxes. Then I thought about a 250, but it didn't seem such good value. There also seems to be less feedback suggesting there's much leap from 200 to 250. Then the whole firmware / Air thing started to bother me, as did a couple of other niggles and my customer service experiences - the most recent of which sealed the deal.

[Womaz]

Yes everything I read says the Devialet and PMC speakers go really well together.
I think it's primarily my room to be honest and not a lot I can do about that , although the daughter already started looking at rugs.....women and shopping ....like men an their hifi ?

[Damon]

The tracks I am finding bright
Swim Deep - namaste
Birdy - skinny love
Foals - mountain at my gates

That was interesting; a good suggestion by Thumb. I listened to each of these tracks several times, and I think that there is certainly 'brightness' in each. The Swim Deep track is quite aggressively mixed, almost with a scooped EQ and there are a lot of instruments mixed at top; the cymbals and snare, the organ and the vocals as well. Nothing laid back there.

The Birdy track is also quite trebly. She has a vocal balance that is more 'throat' than 'chest' in her voice. Airy, but definitely with some of the twang that I might otherwise associate with some female country singers.

The Foals track is great, but very heavy on the hi-hat. I listened to this one at a low volume as well as at a high volume. Even when turned down, and well out of the normal listening zone the hi-hat is very present. The keyboard is also right up there and forward in the mix. Turn it down and keyboard is clear and present.

Here is a funny one; I actually have the treble turned up to +2.5 on my system. My speakers use the (ScanSpeak?) ring radiator tweeter, which is not an overly aggressive item, IMHO. Stock power cable, QED speaker cable of some multi-strand, flat format. And my room is about 12' x 23' x 9' ht, so not dramatically different from yours in dimension. I did hear the 20.23at a store, but with tube amps only, and I did not find them bright.

One aspect of the Devialet, in my opinion, is that it really reproduces the source material as it is. My Naim was not as accurate in this respect and so there was more 'sameness' to the sounds it produced, and less of the actual recording. That said, not everything sounds good with either system. Recordings with crappy miking, mixing or mastering (or whatever flaw) sound like crap. If the 400 is better than the 200, I doubt one of the benefits would be a less revealing sound.

An interesting experiment might be to try some acoustic treatments, even very crude pieces of foam, for an afternoon just to see if it makes a difference to the sound

[Womaz]

Great post Damon thanks very much.
Trouble is with acoustic treatment I would not know where to start. Like I said above a rug is being considered but I am not so sure it will make much difference . Lots of things to ponder but it may be just something I have to live with

[Womaz]

Sorry just to stress though I am thinking about the 400 as an upgrade option. I think the taming of the brightness is another issue ....just would have been good if it may have helped

[Matthew]

My experience in the upgrade path was that speakers made a much bigger difference than the 200 to 400 route. Of course that all depends on the starting point of the current speaker and how much you are willing to invest in a new pair. An thick area rug with some underlay will help with some of the high frequency reflections. It may be more beneficial to the coherency of the sound stage as opposed to taming the high end; likely it won't make it worse.

[Womaz]

My experience in the upgrade path was that speakers made a much bigger difference than the 200 to 400 route.  Of course that all depends on the starting point of the current speaker and how much you are willing to invest in a new pair.  An thick area rug with some underlay will help with some of the high frequency reflections.  It may be more beneficial to the coherency of the sound stage as opposed to taming the high end; likely it won't make it worse.

I would be looking to spend say 5 to 6k on speakers. It was always my intention to eventually go for the PMC26s as I love the 23s, but I would obviously look for other options