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last mile ethernet
#31
(07-Oct-2014, 15:36)Antoine Wrote: Hi Matt, no problem of course, it is a discussion forum after all. Smile When you record the ethernet AIR input using the USB output of the Devialet the music signal remains in the digital domain where I believe no differences should be seen if the conversion from ethernet to USB inside the Devialet itself is of course also bit-perfect. Again I believe differences are most likely the result of analog signal interference that perhaps induces jitter or dirties the ground planes affecting the D/A process or analog output signal out of the DAC into the amplifier circuits and maybe even these amplifier circuits themselves.

Yes, that makes sense.
In that case I'll have to resort to recording the output some other way.
Cheers,
Matt

Sonos Connect (W4S) > DSpeaker Antimode 2.0 > Sanders Magtech > Martin Logan Montis
Sonos Connect (W4S) > Devialet 200 > Vivid V1.5
Silver Phantoms (just the two)
London
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#32
(07-Oct-2014, 06:06)warpeon Wrote: Which ethernet cable is more important - i) between devialet and router, ii) between router and computer, iii) NAS and router? Anyone can offer their thoughts?

Sorry I've just realised that no one has answered your post.

I've done quite a bit of experimenting with this over the past year or so.

I believe the most important connection is the digital source to switch/router. So in my case from my NAS to my router. But this could be from computer to switch/router. The second most important one is the connection between the Devialet (or streamer) and the local switch. The ethernet cable between the two switches is less important (assuming you have a fully wired ethernet network, which I do).

When the Chord ethernet cables first came out their recommendation was to use them at the streamer end but I always found that they had more effect at the NAS end. Since then I've moved on to the AQ Diamond ones which are just wonderful and really have to heard to be believed.

Since I am always trying to squeeze every bit of performance that I can Tongue I run two AQ Diamond cables, essentially one at each end. Between the router and switch (so from my study to my listening room) I run a 20M run of AQ Carbon which just about the best off the spool Cat 7 that you can buy. (I told you! Big GrinBig GrinBig Grin)

Cheers

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, 2 X SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

UK
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#33
(08-Oct-2014, 18:37)GuillaumeB Wrote:
(07-Oct-2014, 06:06)warpeon Wrote: Which ethernet cable is more important - i) between devialet and router, ii) between router and computer, iii) NAS and router? Anyone can offer their thoughts?

Sorry I've just realised that no one has answered your post.

I've done quite a bit of experimenting with this over the past year or so.

I believe the most important connection is the digital source to switch/router. So in my case from my NAS to my router. But this could be from computer to switch/router. The second most important one is the connection between the Devialet (or streamer) and the local switch. The ethernet cable between the two switches is less important (assuming you have a fully wired ethernet network, which I do).

When the Chord ethernet cables first came out their recommendation was to use them at the streamer end but I always found that they had more effect at the NAS end. Since then I've moved on to the AQ Diamond ones which are just wonderful and really have to heard to be believed.

Since I am always trying to squeeze every bit of performance that I can Tongue I run two AQ Diamond cables, essentially one at each end. Between the router and switch (so from my study to my listening room) I run a 20M run of AQ Carbon which just about the best off the spool Cat 7 that you can buy. (I told you! Big GrinBig GrinBig Grin)

Cheers

Guillaume

Thank you. It is quite interesting to learn that the most important ethernet cable is between NAS and router. I was originally guessing it is the bit between devialet and router (being the true last mile), as bits moved from NAS to router, then to computer, then to router and end at devialet. I guess, this may mean source first.

With your finding, I wonder if it would also makes sense to further tweak the NAS, such as with isolating platform, linear power, better power cable, etc. would be more meaningful than doing these to the computer. This may more suitable for another thread.
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#34
(09-Oct-2014, 04:44)warpeon Wrote: I was originally guessing it is the bit between devialet and router (being the true last mile), as bits moved from NAS to router, then to computer, then to router and end at devialet. I guess, this may mean source first.

With your finding, I wonder if it would also makes sense to further tweak the NAS, such as with isolating platform, linear power, better power cable, etc. would be more meaningful than doing these to the computer. This may more suitable for another thread.

In my setup I don't use a PC or Mac since I stream directly from NAS to totaldac server.

Regarding tweaks at the NAS end here is what I have done:

- NAS and router sitting on separate mains board/CU from hi-fi
- Both NAS and router are connected to the mains via an Isotek EVO3 Polaris mains conditioner, this is supposedly bi-directional (I checked with the manufacturer)
-Both NAS and router are connected to a Silver Minimus Ground box via Entreq Challenger ground cables

In terms of the history of how I got here I originally experimented with the mains conditioner and found that it had a nice effect so kept it. It was a bit of a punt at the time and I didn't know what to expect. Then I had a new distribution board/CU put in for my hi-fi effectively separating the hi-fi mains supply from the networking gear (and the rest of the house!). The last change was adding the Entreq box to the NAS and the router which yielded probably the greatest surprise of them all.

I haven't tried isolation platforms or other power supplies.

Cheers

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, 2 X SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

UK
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#35
Anyone tried these (between computer to Devialet) http://ppaproduct.blogspot.com/2014/05/t...cable.html
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#36
Colloms in HiFi Critic recommends this, which I use though I have tried nothing else

http://meicord.de/index.php?id=dietechnologie&L=3
Innuos Statement 2TB SSD with Next-Gen PSU (with Roon lifetime)
MacBook Pro (with Air)
Draytek Vigor 2860v-Plus/Devialet Original d'Atelier CI Nos. 54A&B/Magico M3 pair
Shunyata cables (digital/interconnect/loudspeaker/power)/Shunyata power units (Triton/Typhon)

 Dialog/Phantom Gold/Tree pair
Missing Link cables (power)
England
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#37
I have two identical length ethernet cables: a 70£ Meicord and a 700£ Audioquest Diamond. I tried them alternatively between my QNAP HS-210 which hosts two SSD's in Raid 0 / a 659 Pro II with 6 x WD Red and my managed Cisco switch.

1. I can not tell the difference between the HS-210 SSD QNAP NAS and my old, trustworthy 659 Pro II using the 6 WD Red hard drives. If anything, I feel the HD's deliver an ever so slightly more lively sound, while the SSD might be a bit smoother (or flater, whichever you want to put it). But I am pretty sure that I am imagining things and I am certain that in a blind test I could not tell the difference. So in my experience SSD offers no sonic advantage over HD (and I remember Colloms preferring the HD UnitiServe over the SSD UnitiServe).

2. I can not tell the difference between the Meicord Opal and the "wonderful" Diamond which "has to be heard to be believed" when connecting the NAS to the switch. I believe there is no difference or, if there is a difference, it is so subtle that it takes a bat's ear to hear it. I hear plenty of differences with different power cables, with AES/EBU cables, with speaker cables (yes, they are as relevant with Devialet as with any other amplifier) but no difference with the ethernet cable between my NAS and my switch. So each to his own.

3. I did not however test the Diamond between the switch and my Moon Mind 180D because I would need a longer run and after the above experience I am not keen to spend the money.
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#38
FWIW, I did a similar experiment between a cheap Rosewill CAT7 and the Audioquest Vodka, and could not tell the difference. I run ETH directly from my iMac to the Devialet 250 (so no NAS or router in the equation).
Devialet 1000 Pro Core Infinity, Magico M3, Nordost Frey 2 speaker cable, PS Audio P15 Power Plant, Shunyata Alpha EF AC cable, Mac Mini running ROON.
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#39
(22-Oct-2014, 00:49)flohmann Wrote: FWIW, I did a similar experiment between a cheap Rosewill CAT7 and the Audioquest Vodka, and could not tell the difference. I run ETH directly from my iMac to the Devialet 250 (so no NAS or router in the equation).

I'm not surprised that you can't tell the difference between ethernet cables but you obviously can tell the difference between speaker and power cables as the ones you have are not so cheap Smile

I saw that you are using the PS Audio P3 with your 250. In theory given the 250's power delivery capability you should have a p5 or better, P10. you notice any compression of dynamics or does it sound great?
IMac macOS 10.15.3 (no link to Devialet Sad ) / MacBook Pro Retina OS X 10.14.4 / Linn LP12 / Devialet 200 Wilson Benesch Discovery. 
Qobuz Desktop Latest Version / Audirvana 3.2.18 / Audirvana Remote / iTunes 12.9 / AIR 3.0.4 / Wi-Fi / FW 8.1.0 / SAM 50%
Cambridge, UK (Updated 27th February, 2020)
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#40
PS Audio P3 is more than enough ! "Relatively small" and silent too.


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PS Audio P3 - Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI - Tanagra Audio Iris - Micromega CD-30 - Roon - Mac Mini - Entreq Silver Minimus Apollo Eartha RCA - Shunyata Omega Ethernet - Dela S100/OP-S100
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