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Brightness update
#31
(19-Nov-2015, 18:46)Womaz Wrote: You are right I am clutching at straws as I do not understand all of the technicalities of all this. Thats why i come on here.
But room acoustics definitely leave a lot to be desired so this is being given preference right now. My dealer also thinks he can solve it with a different speaker cable, but at over £700 into a pair of 23s, that cost £2400.....for me that seems overkill.

If your dealer feels that he can fix the issue with speaker cables (even if they do cost £700) why dont you let him?
Try them out and see if there is a solution because at the minute we dont really have a clear direction

Would you dealer be prepared to come to your home to give your system a listen? getting a second opinion would be really useful
.
Foobar2000/Win10 ~ Devialet 440Pro ~ Tannoy Precision 6.4 ~ Auralic Taurus Mk2 ~ Sennheiser HD700
The Missing Link Cryo Reference Mains Cables / The Chord Company Silver Plus USB / Townshend Isolda Bi-Wire Speaker Cables / Townshend Isolda DCT 300 Interconnects / Quadraspire Q4 EVO Rack

The Cotswolds England
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#32
In Getting Better Sound's Quarterly Newsletter, Jim Smith even asking us to try out lamp cord to connect your amp to your speakers, and said you may hear better sound. [Grin]
Before: Le200, KEF LS50, AQ Type4, NUC 5i5RYH/8GB/128GB M.2SSD, Roon, Win8.1/AIR2.1.3/RoonBridge, MM/AIR3/RoonBridge, QNAP TS-212P 5TB NAS, AQ NRG-X3

Now: KEF LS50W, NUC5i5RYH/8GB/128GB M.2SSD, Roon, QNAP TS-212P 5TB NAS,iFi iSilencer3.0+DC iPurifier+iPurifier2, Sonos ZP80+SPDIF iPurifier


Location: Cyberjaya, Malaysia
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#33
(20-Nov-2015, 01:34)alandbush Wrote:
(19-Nov-2015, 18:53)Womaz Wrote:
(19-Nov-2015, 18:29)alandbush Wrote: As a follow-up, and if you are adventurous  Big Grin , you could generate and download sine tone .wav files for playback on your system.
You can do this from the AudioCheck website.

i have done this....but I have no idea what I am supposed to do now that I have done so  Big Grin

The files can be moved to your NAS or Melco and should be treated as tracks.  Depending on how those servers work then you may have to add various ID3 tags (album, artist, title etc.) for them to be identified.  Otherwise, using the Folder view of your control point should find them.

Then simply play them and perhaps you may identify the frequency(ies) causing the issues.

There are that many to download I am not sure which ones I should. I am prepared to do this as like I say it could be my hearing
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
Chord Qutest -- Niimbus US5 Pro Headphone amp —HifiMan HEK, Abyss 1266TC
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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#34
(20-Nov-2015, 04:06)tyefighter Wrote:
(19-Nov-2015, 18:46)Womaz Wrote: You are right I am clutching at straws as I do not understand all of the technicalities of all this. Thats why i come on here.
But room acoustics definitely leave a lot to be desired so this is being given preference right now. My dealer also thinks he can solve it with a different speaker cable, but at over £700 into a pair of 23s, that cost £2400.....for me that seems overkill.

If your dealer feels that he can fix the issue with speaker cables (even if they do cost £700) why dont you let him?
Try them out and see if there is a solution because at the minute we dont really have a clear direction

Would you dealer be prepared to come to your home to give your system a listen? getting a second opinion would be really useful

I will do this as its a no brainer. The only thing stopping me is that I may consider new speakers too . Once I know which direction i am going then I will decide. New speakers was always going to be my next upgrade, but the 23s have served me well and in my room 14ft x 23ft, they may be as good an option as is practical
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
Chord Qutest -- Niimbus US5 Pro Headphone amp —HifiMan HEK, Abyss 1266TC
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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#35
(20-Nov-2015, 01:24)alandbush Wrote: The listed tracks have helped me understand what you are hearing.  A previous system of mine performed in a similar way, although usually above a certain volume.  The issue was removed when I added an EQ box, although at the time I was attempting to improve the bass! But the flatter frequency range must have helped.
I now have Phantoms and none of the tracks cause me any problems, although I can understand how some might (see comments below).  Of course, some users suggest that the Phantoms' highs are 'poor' so maybe I am not in a position to judge.  Rolleyes

I still apply EQ and, time permitting, I'll see if I can provoke the brightness issues by tweaking the highs.


Tini Tempah Miami to Ibiza......his voice sounds sharp and then when the music kicks in....way too bright

nothing in this track suggests there should be an issue

The Maccabees - Marks to Prove it.....worst offender of all. I actually struggle to listen to this track at all now. The cymbals etc kick in after about a minute and its dreadful

this track appears very compressed in comparison to the others so is surprising it causes an issue

Oasis - Supersonic ......cymbals just too bright.....tinny.....hissing

yes, I understand how they could be a problem

Birdy - Skinny Love, beautiful voice until about a minute in and then she sings " told you to be patient told you to be " ...sibilance and sounds like a hissing snake

yes, again, I understand

Kasey Chambers - These Pines --- starts fine but then her voice after about 30 seconds is just piercing.

very definitely yes to this being a problem

So on a lot of the tracks you hear the same as me then. That is interesting. Maybe just some music is like this on a better system. The devialet and Melco are quite a step up from the old MusicAl fidelity M6 Amp i used to have.
Really appreciate all the time and effort you have put in to help me. This forum is my saving grace
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
Chord Qutest -- Niimbus US5 Pro Headphone amp —HifiMan HEK, Abyss 1266TC
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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#36
Womaz - I know that you've tried plenty of things and hesitate to suggest anything else but...

Listening room. I previously had a large, bright listening room with plenty of glass, high pitched ceiling wooden floors and dry-lined walls and my system always sounded a bit bright even after adding rugs, paintings. There are some resonances/reflections that you wont be able to get rid of unless you cover every surface... I know someone who went to great lengths using acoustic panelling etc and it really worked for him.

Devialet Firmware. Several people (including me) have reported increased brightness with some of the more-recent versions. I find 8.1.3 too bright in my system and went back to 8.1.0 which is very good but brighter than I remember with 7.1.. and earlier versions.  Are you running SAM?  

Speaker cables. If I were you I would leave the Van Damme cables in your system for at least a week and see whether you get to like them.  Then switch back to the Tellurium and see what you think then.  A good alternative to try is Naim NACA5 (I think its about £30/m) - its not bright and is resolving (I know people who use it in £80k Naim systems) and the only downside is that it is a bit inflexible and a pain to install...

USB cable.  I dont know which cable you're using?  I'm a cable sceptic but did find differences between cables.  I tried Chord Sarum TA at a ridiculous price (£750) and it was miles better than a cheapo cable... I was very surprised.  Chord Silver Plus at a more reasonable price has had very positive reviews.

Quality of recordings. I also tried listening to the tracks you listed - streamed from Qobuz. They're all ok on my system (i.e. not too bright or sibilant) though I can easily understand how the IMHO poorly recorded/mixed Maccabbee and Oasis tracks would sound bright in many systems and Kasey Chambers' vocal peaks make my ears buzz (-23.5dB)  Exclamation   However, turn her down a few dB and the sound is fine.  I even went on to listen to some of her other tracks which I quite enjoyed - in fact I'm listening to her now. [EDIT: some definite problems with harshness on 'The Captain' as well....]  Clearly some music is intended to played on iPhones etc and won't ever sound 'right' on hi-fi systems.

Loudspeakers. FWIW, I've heard the Twenty 23s several times though mainly in Naim systems and have not found them overly bright... they're one of my local dealers favourite speakers certainly at that price level.  If you want a sweeter sound try Sonus Faber.  I really like Wilson Benesch speakers as they have a very clear, open, natural sound even more so than PMCs but they have good tweeters and never sound harsh (that is since I sold my Naim CDX2 which did...)
IMac macOS 10.15.3 (no link to Devialet Sad ) / MacBook Pro Retina OS X 10.14.4 / Linn LP12 / Devialet 200 Wilson Benesch Discovery. 
Qobuz Desktop Latest Version / Audirvana 3.2.18 / Audirvana Remote / iTunes 12.9 / AIR 3.0.4 / Wi-Fi / FW 8.1.0 / SAM 50%
Cambridge, UK (Updated 27th February, 2020)
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#37
PhilP an excellent post thank you very much.

I think i have more or less decided to go for some panels on my back and side walls, as my room is definitely a bit lively. It is a risk as if they dont work I am stuck with them. However I was considering paintings for the back wall anyway and these panels can be customised. So will probably got for this.

I did try to go back to 7.13 but found it made little difference, but I may try it again and use it for a week or so as opposed to a few hours. However when i did try it the brightness was still there, if I am testing it with the above tracks then that may be why as you found some of the problematic too. Yes I am using SAM......could this be affecting it?

I did out the VD speaker cable back in and lief it in for a day, but I really did not like it. It was even worse. It was brighter and it definitely lost some punch too, less exciting. This surprised me as I have always been a bit cynical as to how much cables affected the sound. Now I have heard it with my own ears I believe it. Dealer wants me to try the Tellerium Q Blue Diamond.

The USB cable is new , the Tellerium Q Blue . I think it is their entry level option. At £185 I dont see that as entry level Big Grin

The speakers are an interesting one and I change my mind almost daily about whether that should be my next upgrade. At times when I am listening I actually think that the sound cant get much better than it is. On certain music they sound excellent. I do feel that have a slightly forward in your face signature, but I like that. i want to keep that but tone the sibilance a little, that may not be possible. Maybe it is all a compromise. My aim was always the 26s, but maybe not now. I have a shortlist and the Sonus Faber venere s is on that list. Like I say though I change my mind almost daily. I think for the price the PMC 23s offer exceptional value, and i fell that to benefit from an upgrade I may have to spend three times as much. I might not be prepared to do this especially as at times they sound fantastic.....and also bearing in mind this is in a room which is not ideal.

The volume point is an interesting one. All of the issues I have go away if I reduce the volume, but I admit to liking my music a bit loud. It can never be crazy loud as I live in an apartment.

i think the panels are a gamble worth taking....I just need my 23 year old fashion student daughter to buy into it and have some input...or at least feel as if she has Big Grin

Once again thanks for the post
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
Chord Qutest -- Niimbus US5 Pro Headphone amp —HifiMan HEK, Abyss 1266TC
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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#38
Hi Womaz, reading PhilP make me think you could give a try to firmware 8.1.3beta, it's easy and will not take long (and you ca use Le Configurateur). The beta version of 8.1.3 is imho less 'bright'

Listen to Roger Waters The Wall - The Soundtrack ..... (Just released on Qobuz)
You will forget about brightness, these live recordings are awesome Wink
B&W 805d - Athom Zef Max - Devialet D200 - AIR Ethernet - Roon ROCK (NUC8i3BEH + LPSU100) - Qobuz

- FR -
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#39
the
(20-Nov-2015, 10:04)Womaz Wrote: So on a lot of the tracks you hear the same as me then. That is interesting. Maybe just some music is like this on a better system. The devialet and Melco are quite a step up from the old MusicAl fidelity M6 Amp i used to have.
Really appreciate all the time and effort you have put in to help me. This forum is my saving grace

No, sorry, I think you misunderstood or I may not have explained clearly enough.

All the tracks are fine to me but I can identify the parts of the tracks that are clearly causing you issues if they result from an appropriate frequency range peak/resonance.
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#40
Ok I get you now, you think my problems could be solved by using equalisation. I think I have more or less decided to put some bass traps on the back wall to see if this improves things. I was recommended to do more, but I dont really want my living room looking like a recording studio.,so 4 fairly large bass traps on the back wall is where I will start.
I am also keen not to dull the music too much as like I said I do like a lively presentation i think. For me its all a bit of a risk and an experiment so thanks for all the help on this post
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
Chord Qutest -- Niimbus US5 Pro Headphone amp —HifiMan HEK, Abyss 1266TC
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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