Electrostatics

[ozthepoz]

I am using ML Vantages at the moment and love them - they absolutely suit the sort of music I listen to - folk, americana, female vocals, some "light" classical. I do rock them out with Sugar, Pearl Jam, Neil Young occasionally and I have no complaints, but there is no doubt they bring a certain magic to the right types of music.

I'm saving up for a pair Montis/Ethos at the moment - don't think I could ever go back to convential speakers now.

I would also say that my 250 brings out the best in them - I've used Copland, Krell and Moon all decent - but Devialet seems to be a fantastic match.

[Jwg1749]

I take a different view of this. I've had ML Montis for 18 months now. Initially I ran them with a D200. I found the top end really scratchy and the sound generally rather thin: a lot of recordings were simply painful to listen to. I thought the problem might be a lack of power: MLs are known to respond well to very powerful amps, as the impedance is shockingly low at high frequencies.

So I got a D200 Companion on loan, thinking the D400 would do the job. There was no real improvement. At the same time I got a Sanders Magtech on demo. It's a 500W Class A/B power amp that's designed specifically to drive electrostatics. (Sturdy power supply and twenty output stages, which deliver the voltage that ESLs crave.) I found the Magtech superior to the D400 in every way: smoother top end, flatter FR, more holographic soundstage. I bought the Magtech to drive the Montis.

I still have the D200, which drives a pair of Vivid V1.5s in my second system. And I remain a big Devialet fan: I've since bought a pair of Silver Phantoms for the holiday cottage. But I'd advise everyone who owns Martin Logans to try a really beefy amp like the Sanders Magtech. Anyone within reach of west London would be welcome for a comparative demo.

[Cylob]

I take a different view of this. I've had ML Montis for 18 months now. Initially I ran them with a D200. I found the top end really scratchy and the sound generally rather thin: a lot of recordings were simply painful to listen to. I thought the problem might be a lack of power: MLs are known to respond well to very powerful amps, as the impedance is shockingly low at high frequencies.

So I got a D200 Companion on loan, thinking the D400 would do the job. There was no real improvement. At the same time I got a Sanders Magtech on demo. It's a 500W Class A/B power amp that's designed specifically to drive electrostatics. (Sturdy power supply and twenty output stages, which deliver the voltage that ESLs crave.) I found the Magtech superior to the D400 in every way: smoother top end, flatter FR, more holographic soundstage. I bought the Magtech to drive the Montis.

I still have the D200, which drives a pair of Vivid V1.5s in my second system. And I remain a big Devialet fan: I've since bought a pair of Silver Phantoms for the holiday cottage. But I'd advise everyone who owns Martin Logans to try a really beefy amp like the Sanders Magtech. Anyone within reach of west London would be welcome for a comparative demo.

A friend of mine just bought a set of Martin Logans [Ethos] and he has no problems driving them with a Devialet 120. He claims positioning is the key here.
He added a section about Logans in his Devialet review.
I heard the set and it's magical. Not thin or scratchy as you describe the Montis.
Bright, but smooth. Great imaging. Wide soundstage. Warm and deep bass. Nothing wrong with it.

Dev 120/200 review HiFiAdvice [sidenote3]

[Jwg1749]

I take a different view of this. I've had ML Montis for 18 months now. Initially I ran them with a D200. I found the top end really scratchy and the sound generally rather thin: a lot of recordings were simply painful to listen to. I thought the problem might be a lack of power: MLs are known to respond well to very powerful amps, as the impedance is shockingly low at high frequencies.

So I got a D200 Companion on loan, thinking the D400 would do the job. There was no real improvement. At the same time I got a Sanders Magtech on demo. It's a 500W Class A/B power amp that's designed specifically to drive electrostatics. (Sturdy power supply and twenty output stages, which deliver the voltage that ESLs crave.) I found the Magtech superior to the D400 in every way: smoother top end, flatter FR, more holographic soundstage. I bought the Magtech to drive the Montis.

I still have the D200, which drives a pair of Vivid V1.5s in my second system. And I remain a big Devialet fan: I've since bought a pair of Silver Phantoms for the holiday cottage. But I'd advise everyone who owns Martin Logans to try a really beefy amp like the Sanders Magtech. Anyone within reach of west London would be welcome for a comparative demo.

A friend of mine just bought a set of Martin Logans [Ethos] and he has no problems driving them with a Devialet 120. He claims positioning is the key here.
He added a section about Logans in his Devialet review.
I heard the set and it's magical. Not thin or scratchy as you describe the Montis.
Bright, but smooth. Great imaging. Wide soundstage. Warm and deep bass. Nothing wrong with it.

Dev 120/200 review HiFiAdvice [sidenote3]

I suspect the smoother top end your friend has with his Ethos may be connected with the acoustic panels he has behind the speakers (assuming the image on the website you linked to is his set up). It might tame the top end, but this is, of course, not how Martin Logans are designed to be used.

They will sound better if placed in front of a bare wall, so that the rearwards reflection can be heard. This is what they're designed for.

Having heard the two amps side by side, I'm confident your friend would get a better result from the Magtech.

The issues with running electrostatics with Dev amps are well known: see the original Stereophile review of the D-Premier.

[Cylob]

When I've heard them the panels weren't there yet, so I can't tell if the panels did any good.
He's still tweaking that set it seems.
You can check his main setup on the site as well. Rowland / Apogee. It sounds heavenly.

[Jwg1749]

When I've heard them the panels weren't there yet, so I can't tell if the panels did any good.
He's still tweaking that set it seems.
You can check his main setup on the site as well. Rowland / Apogee. It sounds heavenly.

I can imagine the Rowland/Apogee system does sound great.

[gmartan]

I take a different view of this. I've had ML Montis for 18 months now. Initially I ran them with a D200. I found the top end really scratchy and the sound generally rather thin: a lot of recordings were simply painful to listen to. I thought the problem might be a lack of power: MLs are known to respond well to very powerful amps, as the impedance is shockingly low at high frequencies.

So I got a D200 Companion on loan, thinking the D400 would do the job. There was no real improvement. At the same time I got a Sanders Magtech on demo. It's a 500W Class A/B power amp that's designed specifically to drive electrostatics. (Sturdy power supply and twenty output stages, which deliver the voltage that ESLs crave.) I found the Magtech superior to the D400 in every way: smoother top end, flatter FR, more holographic soundstage. I bought the Magtech to drive the Montis.

I totally agree with your experience.  I found the D200 just as you did with my Summits.  Conversely, they were really amazing with a pair of small dynamic speakers I tried. Huge sound-stage and great bass.

The current line of Martin Logan speakers all go down to 0.6 ohms so output transformer equipped amps will roll off the top end, and sound dull, since the impedance can't be properly matched.  Oddly, even though the woofers are powered, a big solid state direct coupled amp has the best control over the bottom end.  Lastly, the speakers are ruthlessly revealing of all the gear in front plus any less-than-excellent recordings, CDs in particular.  The only cure I found, while wasting many thousands of dollars in the process, is a good neutral sounding tube pre-amplifier.  What is fronting your Magtech?

[Jwg1749]

I take a different view of this. I've had ML Montis for 18 months now. Initially I ran them with a D200. I found the top end really scratchy and the sound generally rather thin: a lot of recordings were simply painful to listen to. I thought the problem might be a lack of power: MLs are known to respond well to very powerful amps, as the impedance is shockingly low at high frequencies.

So I got a D200 Companion on loan, thinking the D400 would do the job. There was no real improvement. At the same time I got a Sanders Magtech on demo. It's a 500W Class A/B power amp that's designed specifically to drive electrostatics. (Sturdy power supply and twenty output stages, which deliver the voltage that ESLs crave.) I found the Magtech superior to the D400 in every way: smoother top end, flatter FR, more holographic soundstage. I bought the Magtech to drive the Montis.

I totally agree with your experience.  I found the D200 just as you did with my Summits.  Conversely, they were really amazing with a pair of small dynamic speakers I tried.  Huge sound-stage and great bass.

The current line of Martin Logan speakers all go down to 0.6 ohms so output transformer equipped amps will roll off the top end, and sound dull, since the impedance can't be properly matched.  Oddly, even though the woofers are powered, a big solid state direct coupled amp has the best control over the bottom end.  Lastly, the speakers are ruthlessly revealing of all the gear in front plus any less-than-excellent recordings, CDs in particular.  The only cure I found, while wasting many thousands of dollars in the process, is a good neutral sounding tube pre-amplifier.  What is fronting your Magtech?

The front end is still in flux. I have a modified Audiolab M-DAC (Lakewest "Toy" level III), which currently serves as DAC and pre. My aim is to replace this with John Westlake's new FDAC when it eventually appears later this year. JW designs his stuff to work with Martin Logans, so the new FDAC should be ideal. The music will be on a simple server or NAS piped into the FDAC via USB.

I also use a DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 in the digital domain for room EQ, which is an absolute godsend.

[Duomike]

Heard logans and maggies a few times. Despite the many advantages they have I'm not a big fan of their sound, mainly because of their compressed dynamics. I'm a horn guy so I like my music dynamic. To each his own

[Peter van der Laarse]

The soundquality of the 220PRO is really a setp further then the 200, especially when it is playing at a low volume. It is coming more and more to life in the last 48 hours. Listened a lot to the television (Crimes on BBC1 in DD5.1, ZDF live shows are always the best) and it is a marvel.
But I must say that the differences between new (2812, 2912) Quads, older ones (2805, 2912) and ancient ones (988, 989, 63, 57) are much-much larger then upgrading from a Devialet 200 to a Devialet 220PRO. And Quad full-range electrostatics are the best in representing details, colour-free-undistorted sound and their famous dissapparing act. No other speaker can regardless of price. Öke, when you prepare the room. I think with a lot of speakers the differences between the PRO and the older models will not be so big again as with a speaker upgrade. The chain is as strong as the weakest link?

But that said, my wife and I were severall times more convinced somebody was at our door, one of hour telephones was going off, etc. etc. A good friend of mine was crying when she heared Elvis on the Stax headphones driven by Devialet 220. "It is as he is back again and here with me.... How good can an amplifier/ headphone be.....