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Power Filter Advice for a Dev 200 pls?
#21
There may still be a PS Audio Power Plant Premier for sale here:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthrea...)-for-sale
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 Dialog/Phantom Gold/Tree pair
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#22
Sad 
(22-Aug-2014, 12:16)IanG-UK Wrote: There may still be a PS Audio Power Plant Premier for sale here:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthrea...)-for-sale

UK power sockets, I live in Spain, need Schukos Sad, but many thanks Big Grin
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#23
(16-Aug-2014, 16:04)Kunter Wrote: Krorghar,

Power is drawn by the electronics rather than the wall socket pushing it. Some give the analogy of running water, which is far from the truth.

Voltage is there, in my case 220 VAC (Alternating at 50 cycles per second) but the amount of current drawn, so the power drawn, depends on the "then" requirements of the electronics. (simply Power = Current x Voltage). If the amp needs to deliver sound for a sudden drum kick from nothingness, there will be a very quick request from the wall for increased current to deliver that power. And the wall needs to be ready all the time to provide whatever the requirements are...

Class A solves this problem by taking a steady amount of power from the wall, and turning the unused amount to heat. The louder Class A Amps play, the cooler they are...

For anything other than that, the requirements of power from the wall depends on the music... The ability to adequately deliver the requirement is the "low impedance" of the wall power... (impedance is "resistance" for AC) So the power grid should not "resist" the amps requests...

The noise in the power line comes in various forms, but one of the biggest problems is the presence of higher frequency information (Other than the 50 Hz we need) that does unwanted things to our power supplies. It seems like a very good idea to clean and diminish those by filters (in this case, a low-pass filter which effectively lets the 50 Hz pass, and tries to stop anything bigger)

Most filters, while trying to clean up high frequency noise, increase impedance so it is harder for the electronic component to draw adequate power. The increased impedance is the direct result of the components used by the filters to "resist" higher frequency "noise". So they also resist the instantaneous changes in power requirements which look like noise...

This in turn kills the dynamics (mostly macro, but sometimes microdynamics). This is mostly ok for Class A equipment, where their power draw is almost always the same, however for anything other than that, and in my experience Devialet in particular, which requires varying levels of power depending on the musical passages, it takes all the fun away...

This is a rouge generalization as some filters act worse than others, but I have yet found one that I could live long term. Initially most sound good, but then you get bored of your music too easily...

Best if you try to audition some for your home, and watch out any dynamics loss together with the positives of filters...

So far the only in-line so called filtering device I am happy to put between my Devialets and the wall is a very large Isolation Transformer...

Cheers...

Kunter
Thanks a lot Kunter!

This was a big enlightenment for me
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amabrok's system - Latest update (May 2015, Page 11, Post #109)

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#24
Yes, an excellent post Kunter! So, this begs the question, is there anything you can buy that would improve the performance of the Devialet without restricting its dynamic performance? I guess a mains conditioner might be a good idea to isolate other "front end" kit from from the "noisy" Devialet power? From what I've read, a dedicated mains spur looks like a good idea. Any other good ideas?
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#25
Agree that Kunter sums the challenges up very well. My personal, unproven take on this is that:

1. The Devialet SPMPS is very noisy (I believe this is commonly agreed upon/ proven). Obviously the engineers at Devialet has gone to great lengths to isolate the internal electronics in the Devialet from this noise and I have a hard time understanding that a power conditioner would add any significant benefit other than perhaps change the coloring of sound, which for some might be what they want.

2. Source components like preamp and DACs are most sensitive to electronic noise and also draw sufficiently little current to hopefully not be impacted by the "slowness" of a filter/ conditioner. Hence, I would expect the ideal solution to be to put a conditioner in front of the source, isolating it from the Devialet and other sources of noise and then connect the Devialet directly to the wall wart.

I am hoping that someone with access to a good conditioner could be bothered to test this theory.
QNAP TS219P II/ TIDAL-Hifi > Roon@mac-mini > AIR3-Cat6 > Devialet 250 > Audience AU24 SE > Gallo-3.5Ref (w/ SAM)
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#26
You can find some tests on the Shunyata Research site showing how their Typhon/Triton gives faster rise times than a normal power supply; or on PS Audio that show a regenerator gives a purer sine wave than a normal power supply.

There were also tests published long ago to show that a Quad ESL63 could deliver a square wave out if the audio input was a square wave in - something which most speakers get nowhere close to.

What I cannot find are those things linked - dirty mains in giving dirty speaker square wave out, and clean giving clean.
Innuos Statement 2TB SSD with Next-Gen PSU (with Roon lifetime)
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Draytek Vigor 2860v-Plus/Devialet Original d'Atelier CI Nos. 54A&B/Magico M3 pair
Shunyata cables (digital/interconnect/loudspeaker/power)/Shunyata power units (Triton/Typhon)

 Dialog/Phantom Gold/Tree pair
Missing Link cables (power)
England
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#27
I wonder whether the equipment that Devialet use for measuring speakers for SAM would be capable of picking up the differences between power filters. If dynamics are being limited by the filters then this should be fairly easy to measure.

Audible differences in sound when comparing clean to 'dirty' mains should, of course, also be measurable.
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Cambridge, UK (Updated 27th February, 2020)
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#28
Power amps, and such should plug and draw directly from wall. Agreed.

However, for more low powered and sensitive devices like PC/DAC/CDPlayer, where power drawn is not more than what it already needs, required clean power.

For Devialet, it has both (or 4 in one). Power amp/ Pre (Power hungry), DAC and WIFI/Ethernet modules (more sensitive)

So I am 50% on getting a filter... haha. Doesn't get worse than it is. I decided to leave it, but maybe get a better power cable from Siltech...
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#29
I know I've already said this before elsewhere but I do believe one of the most cost effective upgrades you can carry out is installing a dedicated consumer unit/distribution board for your hi-fi circuits. If this is not possible then at the very least I would look into having one or two dedicated spurs running from your existing CU.

I use Furutech GTX-D ® wall sockets:

http://www.furutech.com/2013/02/02/1746/

Guillaume
[/quote]

Hi,

I can second that as a dedicated spur at the consumer unit with a dedicated run of mains cable made the biggest impact in my system. If you can go for that economically do that but the longer run of dedicated mains cable the more cost of course. With dedicated spur, double outlets, 9 meters mains cable and installation I spent about 1000 EUR.
Even our tv got much better picture (colors, contrast, sharpness etc) from this and system just sounds so more composed. I use the Rhodium outlet from Furutech as for me it gives a 'cleaner' sound signature.
Here's a link to the mains cable I use: http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Audience%2...nstall.htm

/Mike

(17-Aug-2014, 10:01)Kunter Wrote:
(16-Aug-2014, 20:04)Krorghar Wrote: Many thanks for the explanation Kunter, didn't knew that. So filtering is a bad iddea then for the Devialet. Which power cord could you advice pls? And any Isolation transformer? budget about 1000€, don't want to spend more in this Area.

I would spend a bit more than 100 euros for the wall outlet
Furutech Schuko FT-SWS Gold is good...
http://www.vhaudio.com/acreceptacles.html#schuko

and for the remaining 900 euros you can find second hand Synergistic Research (Precision Reference or better yet Hologram A / D, all previous generation than the current production and are excellent) or Nordost (anything above Valhalla)...

It is a good idea to buy power cords second hand (in many cases less than half retail price), give a good clean on connectors (I use ultrasonic cleaning from time to time with a cheapo jewellery cleaner) and enjoy...And yes this cleaning is a must, especially if the previous owner likes cigars as much as I do ...

JPS Kaptovator was also a winner at the brief time I had the chance to try it out..

Sablon audio is getting rave reviews for Devialet but I did not have a chance to hear their products...

LessLoss, Furutech Alpha, Telos Power Cords were not to my liking for the Devialet...

Hope you find your cup of tea. Just don't rush, and try to have more than couple of hours listening/testing sessions with each cable you try...

Cheers...

Mike here,

JPS Kaptovator is a very good one and was the first PC that showed me that PC has a strong place in the system. It is a very dynamic cable with lots of kick. However I went on to the Sablon Petit Coronas (with the Oyaide 004 plugs) which was a step up from the Kaptovator as it added small details in the whole freq spectrum and sounds a bit more balanced. It takes some time to realize that it a very good pc. the only thing I miss with Kaptovator is the slam factor but I suspect this was more a coloration issue with the Kaptovator.

Cheers

(17-Aug-2014, 16:24)Krorghar Wrote: Many thanks Kunter, will do.

For the wall outlet, gold is enough or I should get rhodium if I can? I mean .. does the extra 50€ rhodium cost, make a noticeable difference?

Hi,

For me Rhodium works better than the gold version as in my dedicated mains system had one gold and one rhodium so I can compare directly. Rhodium gives a more clear delivery without being analytic or disturbing at the top freq. I use the gold outlet for TV and movie system (Oppo player).

/Mike

(15-Aug-2014, 21:03)Krorghar Wrote: Hi again friends.

This time is the Power Filter Turn. I have Read that the Dev is specially vulnerable to Noise and unconsistent Waveforms in the power net, and that a Power Filter is a necessary upgrade.

I dont want to spend half the cost of the Device in a Power filter (mostly because cables will follow), so I have been considering these models, that have a decent price tag:

[Image: FurutechE-TP60E_zps9185dca5.jpg]

[Image: XindakXF-2000E_zpsc67d9deb.jpg]

[Image: FurutechE-TP80E_zpsab2e0e95.png]

[Image: Furutechf-TP615E_zpsa9e5270a.jpg]

[Image: IsotekOrion4_zpsbe50fc9c.jpg]

Which one would you recommend for a Devialet 200? also, please feel free to advice any other models. All comments greatly wellcome, many thanks guys.

Hi,

With a dedicated mains system I probably would say that any filter would be of negative effect as already commented on. With dedicated mains system I would recommend a good quality mains distribution box that has a star configured wiring inside, contacts should be of same quality as the wall unit.

/Mike
Ex D400 Now Aavik U-300/Feickert Woodpecker2-Kuzma 4P-Kondo silver-Benz LPS-Teddy Pardo PSU/Naim Unitiserve-Teddy Pardo PSU/SF Guarneri Homage/Whole system decoupled by Ansuz DTC/Cables from Ansuz, DYI and other commercial/Dedicated mains and spur-Lampizator SILK
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#30
Hi folks.

I don't want to be boring but you should give the PS AUDIO powerplants a try as well.

Once you have seen the measurements on the display of the larger PS AUDIOs yourself you will understand the results much easier. And if you hear the difference it makes in a nice DEVIALET setup you will soon be convinced, too.

My friends and I use these powerplants in all of our DEVIALET setups and the SQ improved a lot. In former times we have tried other "classical" filters as well but nothing worked so nicely in every setup under all kind of conditions like the PS AUDIOs do.

We have compared expensive rhodium power lines with the PS AUDIOs too but we all prefer the powerplants for SQ reasons (despite the high prices).

Besides, we swear on FURUTECHS 50-series rhodium power plugs and the matching wall sockets. The benefit is normally really huge.

Finally I would like to mention that I live in Germany and maybe the subject is special because of the SCHUKO-plugs we use. Some say we "suffer" also from the lots of alternative "green" power we are supplied with nowadays.....

In Dubio Pro Audio

Jan
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