PMC26 v Sonus Faber Olympica 2

[Womaz]

Ok this is a long shot, has anyone compared the two speakers above?
I won't go into detail as I have another thread about my speaker demos, but I am keen to know if anyone has any experience with above speakers.

At present I have the SFs at home and they are excellent, very smooth, but dare I say it lack a bit of excitement. Hard to describe what I am missing but I think it's that in your face presentation.

I love the treble in the SFs but I miss the pace and excitement of my PMCs. The logical thing would be to home demo the 26s but this may not be possible .

Am I expecting too much to have a sweet smooth sound with that in your face excitement as well?

The SFs are excellent don't get me wrong and leave my existing speakers standing, but so they should at treble the price.

Any guidance as always appreciated

[thumb5]

You say it "may not be possible" to have the 26s on home demo - meaning there's no dealer willing/able to let you try a pair at home?  (Or maybe another reason, I'm not trying to be nosy!)  It would be pretty disappointing not to give them a fair try-out, if you're seriously considering them and like your existing PMCs - if only to prevent yourself from thinking about what might have been...

On the other question, firing a long shot back at you: have you tried experimenting with the toe-in of the Olympicas?  It might be worth playing with, as you should be able to "tune" the top end a bit; although I haven't messed about with this much, received wisdom is that you're likely to get the most "toppy" sound when the speakers are pointed straight at your listening position (i.e. on-axis response).

[Womaz]

The dealer I am using does not stock the 26s so I would have to go elsewhere , I am not ruling it out but involves getting another dealer involved.

I will experiment with the toe in. Are you saying that experimenting with the toe in could help me get a more lively presentation? I think I am happy that I have sorted the overpowering bass with the reduction of SAM to 0.

I think the SFs have a very laid back presentation and whilst I do like this I do find myself missing something. It's hard to do a demo I think as I may be overanalysing. Like I said in the other post it will be very interesteing how I feel when the 23 s go back in.

I definitely prefer the SFs to my 23s, but I wish they were a little more in your face if you like. Maybe this is the price you pay for the smoothness. Got me thinking that maybe the 26 will give me that smooth sound and the pace and excitement. ......if that makes sense

[thumb5]

I will experiment with the toe in. Are you saying that experimenting with the toe in could help me get a more lively presentation? I think I am happy that I have sorted the overpowering bass with the reduction of SAM to 0.

That's what I had in mind, yes - sorry for being a bit vague. Having said that, I'd expect it's likely to be a fairly small change rather than giving the speakers a completely different character. But you never know, and while you've got 'em it must be worth a try.

[Womaz]

I will try but I have experimented with the toe in already to get the bass right........mind it is a minefield :-)

Enjoying it though and they are so different to my PMCs

[MusicLover]

I will try but I have experimented with the toe in already to get the bass right........mind it is a minefield :-)

Enjoying it though and they are so different to my PMCs

Hi again Womaz,

Ian is absolutely right. Increased toe in should give you a more "direct" presentation, and it's essential to get it right. It should really not change tonal balance. Should you have a problem with the highs, which you clearly don't, playing with rake would most likely help.

My pair are positioned with a fair amount of toe in, certainly more than I've seen at dealers, as their axis cross behind the listening position. And as I've said before, they punch more than enough when needed and so far have thrilled everyone I've brought home, including some musicians (my cellist girlfriend doesn't count  ).

For me it would be unthinkable to enjoy speakers that sound mellow and sweet with Holy Cole but cannot rock properly with Queen, Nirvana or Metallica. There's certainly a moment for almost any genre at my place 

ML

[Matthew]

Ok this is a long shot, has anyone compared the two speakers above?
I won't go into detail as I have another thread about my speaker demos, but I am keen to know if anyone has any experience with above speakers.

At present I have the SFs at home and they are excellent, very smooth, but dare I say it lack a bit of excitement. Hard to describe what I am missing but I think it's that in your face presentation.

I love the treble in the SFs but I miss the pace and excitement of my PMCs. The logical thing would be to home demo the 26s but this may not be possible .

Am I expecting too much to have a sweet smooth sound with that in your face excitement as well?

The SFs are excellent don't get me wrong and leave my existing speakers standing, but so they should at treble the price.

Any guidance as always appreciated

My understanding is that the more you tow in the speakers the more "on axis" you get.  Therefore with the tweeter pointing more toward you should get higher end that is more 'accurate'.  Depending on how the speakers are designed to respond on and off axis it will make more of a difference in the listening experience.  IMHO it should not affect the bass but it could perhaps alter the sound stage.  I just did a measurement on my KEF's the first measurement (pink line) has toe in (I don't know the angle in degrees) where the front spike is 2" inside the back spike.  The second measurement (black line) the front spike is 4" inside the rest spike so that the speakers are point more to the listening position.  The mic only is responsive to 20KHz, hence the rapid drop at that point.  In both graphs there's basically no change below 600 Hz.  Anyway you can see flatter response with greater tow in after about 2KHz.  Not by a lot but it demonstrates the point (I think).  I honestly could not hear any difference in either sound stage or in the high end.

[f1eng]

As others have written, bass is mainly effected by the room, and the position of the speakers in it. The speaker contribution is inherent in the design and only speakers with a gentle but steady bass rolloff tend to be non-boomy near a wall. That tends to favour sealed box over reflex designs.
At the other end of the frequency range the drive units beam over a narrower and narrower angle as the frequency increases. Toe-in has a big effect on whether the tweeter (the most directional of all) is pointing at you or not. When fired straight down the room it is likely that you are missing a considerable amount of the overtones if the speakers are designed with a flat response. There are a few speakers about with a significant steady rise in tweeter response which may compensate for this when not pointing at the listener. Matthew's graph is typical of what one would expect. I am only slightly surprised he did not hear a difference, because actually the difference in his is only really significant in the last audible octave (10kHz to 20kHz) and this octave contains no fundamental notes from any non-percussion instrument iirc, just overtones.
Also, because of the ear's different sensitivity to different frequencies, these frequencies need to be pretty loud to be heard at all anyway so on a lot of music one would not expect an audible difference due to this.

[Womaz]

Once again some great replies so thank you.
I probably opened this thread a little early as after more listening I just dont think the Olympicas suit my room. Its such a shame as they are a beautiful speaker. I have updated my other thread about my new speakers as i do not want to have two threads running about the same issue.

Thanks again