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DSD + Passthrough = No Volume Control
#1
I have been trying out Native DSD tracks with my D120 lately, and I find them to have a lush sweetness in the treble that I rarely find elsewhere.

I've also been experimenting with having JRiver Media Center set the volume, with D120 USB input in PASSTHROUGH mode. Doesn't seem any worse, despite theoretical loss of bit resolution.

Unfortunately, the two don't mix, as the DSD comes through at full volume.
It seems to me that a DSD stream doesn't lend itself to any manipulation of any kind, as even the comprehensive JRMC can't do it without DSD->PCM>DSD conversion.

Anyone else run into the same - VERY LOUD - problem?
JRiver v22 >> MacMini >> D120 >> Tellurium-Q Black >> PMC Twenty5.23
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#2
If I have understood things correctly DSD can not be manipulated in any way digitally. If one wants a digital volume control I believe conversion to PCM is necessary.
So to stay in DSD one needs a DSD DAC into an entirely analogue system.

I wonder how many DSD recordings are unmanipulated, ie pure DSD from performance to playback?
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#3
Thanks. Yes, only an analogue preamp would work for DSD. Shame Devialet won't let us toggle pass through mode with a button instead of the Configurator (I guess because that could also lead to some volume shocks!)
JRiver v22 >> MacMini >> D120 >> Tellurium-Q Black >> PMC Twenty5.23
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#4
Devialet can handle PCM signal up to 24/192 kHz and DSD 64. DSD over PCM on USB is applicable since the firmware 8.1 and got better in 9.1.
 
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#5
One further thought... If DSD can't be manipulated in the digital domain, how does one suppose that Devaliet alters the volume in non-passthrough mode? Does it mean they are converting it to PCM and thus we are not hearing "pure" DSD?
JRiver v22 >> MacMini >> D120 >> Tellurium-Q Black >> PMC Twenty5.23
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#6
(17-Feb-2016, 18:32)JohnnySix Wrote: One further thought... If DSD can't be manipulated in the digital domain, how does one suppose that Devaliet alters the volume in non-passthrough mode? Does it mean they are converting it to PCM and thus we are not hearing "pure" DSD?

Isn't that inevitable given that the ADH subsystem is presumably designed to work on PCM samples?  (That's not a loaded question, by the way.)
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#7
http://en.devialet.com/assets/V3/pdf/Whi...xpert-.pdf
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#8
I would be prepared to bet 5 pence of my own money that fewer than 5% of DSD releases, maybe none, have not been to pcm and back at some stage during mixing and mastering.
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#9
From my (fairly limited) understanding, it's recognised that pretty much all recording uses high bit depth PCM or other proprietary format - because it's necessary for mixing -  but since they put a final master out at DSD or DXD or whatever you call it, the version you buy is allegedly meant to be identical to that.

Well, that's my understanding anyway. Personally I've got limited DSD files, and not of my favourite music type as its mostly classical. The Devislet only does DSd64 which it then converts back to PCM for its processing and then I assume back to DSD again for final output, so it all seems a bit pointless on a Devialet. I couldn't tell much difference but I'm not inclined to convert to anther format and compare.

It seems it's more useful for other high end DACs that can run native DSD, thereby avoiding all of the DACs internal filtering/processing that takes PCM up to DSD before final output.

I think the HQPlayer designer has found a way to process DSD natively - at least for convolution/room correction purposes, and that includes volume adjust. Not sure how, but he does seem to be regarded as a signal processing guru.

One things for sure, DSDs take up a lot of space!

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#10
Very interesting White Paper there, Antoine.

It leaves me slightly puzzled about the fact that the PCM1792 chip is meant to have native DSD capability.
From what I'm reading, the DAC chip would only be able to keep the DSD bitstream pure if there was absolutely NO processing applied to it beforehand (including volume adjustment).

I'm unclear as to whether Devialet still manipulate the bitstream with their "MAT" transform even if the USB input was in passthrough mode.
JRiver v22 >> MacMini >> D120 >> Tellurium-Q Black >> PMC Twenty5.23
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