Roon and Sonicorbiter SE = The Spark Killer

[Atter]

I'd read that too - sorry I don't have any more specifics.  Maybe they worked around it, or its a fudge?

If it was possible so easily, why didn't they implement it at the outset?  Why did it only come about after it was raised by a user?

The CTO of Roon clearly says it is a limitation of the processor used.  How can it be a limitation of the processor if it is possible to fix it with a software update?

Maybe it is, but now we're getting well past my expertise!

Anyway, I'm not getting one, have just received my RPi2 and Digi+ and will have it up and running soon.

[Hifi_swlon]

I'd read that too - sorry I don't have any more specifics.  Maybe they worked around it, or its a fudge?

If it was possible so easily, why didn't they implement it at the outset?  Why did it only come about after it was raised by a user?

I guess it may be the case that either it wasn't easy, or they weren't aware it was going to be such an issue.  Or its actually not really a fix. I might ping them over at the Roon forums and see if we can get any more info…. its interesting in any case….

[fritzcurtis1]

Andrew at Sonicorbiter has been awesome.  He just informed me that all Sonicorbiters as of today have been upgraded (including mine remotely) to v.10 which includes the 176k sample rate.  There is no up sampling done by the Sonicorbiter it is simply passing the signal now at 176 instead of 44k.  Roon is doing all the processing as again it is a Roon certified device.  Sound has gotten even better on DSD64 and DSD128 files.  This is an absolute must for 300 bucks.  I have a Raspberry on order to do a full review and comparison as well.  Stay tuned.  But based on the the chip differences, I am positive the So will sound better.  The issue with the PI is all processing s done via the USB hub audio and all.  The chip alone on the SO cost Andrew almost 100 bucks! The cheaper chip and signal path introduces pops and crackles that many have complained about.  I get none of that with the SO.  The sound is amazing.  No financial affiliation at all with Andrew or SO, just one happy customer.

[Hifi_swlon]

Andrew at Sonicorbiter has been awesome.  He just informed me that all Sonicorbiters as of today have been upgraded (including mine remotely) to v.10 which includes the 176k sample rate.

Fritz, from your post over at Roon, it sounds like they're saying the 176 thing was never a limitation of the cubox chipset or whatever, just an oversight? Can you confirm, or do you have any further info?

No financial affiliation at all with Andrew or SO, just one happy customer.

Seems like you're not alone there For the money, its hard to see what could be a simpler/better option of it sounds OK - especially since it has multiple output modes built into the OS (for those that need such a thing).
Cant wait to see some comparisons on how this stacks up against more expensive renderers….

[Atter]

Andrew at Sonicorbiter has been awesome.  He just informed me that all Sonicorbiters as of today have been upgraded (including mine remotely) to v.10 which includes the 176k sample rate.  There is no up sampling done by the Sonicorbiter it is simply passing the signal now at 176 instead of 44k.  Roon is doing all the processing as again it is a Roon certified device.  Sound has gotten even better on DSD64 and DSD128 files.  This is an absolute must for 300 bucks.  I have a Raspberry on order to do a full review and comparison as well.  Stay tuned.  But based on the the chip differences, I am positive the So will sound better.  The issue with the PI is all processing s done via the USB hub audio and all.  The chip alone on the SO cost Andrew almost 100 bucks! The cheaper chip and signal path introduces pops and crackles that many have complained about.  I get none of that with the SO.  The sound is amazing.  No financial affiliation at all with Andrew or SO, just one happy customer.

The pops/clicks on the Pi are nothing to do with the "cheaper chip".  They are a result of the shared USB/Ethernet bus.  And they are only an issue if you try to play DSD128 and higher and use a USB DAC plugged into a USB port on the Pi with Roon sending DSD data over the network.  None of this happens with the optical port as its maximum rate is 192 as on the Dialog/Phantom.  So that make no difference at all in this use case as one is not using a USB DAC, Roon is sending a max of 192/24 and using the optical port on the Pi.

Also, this - "The issue with the PI is all processing s done via the USB hub audio and all" doesn't make sense.

I think you're giving a lot of emphasis to the pricing of the chip on these systems.  On the Pi the CPU is not being strained in the least.  It's effectively passing on what it's receiving on the Ethernet port to the optical port.  I would be very surprised if there was any difference in the sound of the 2 systems. All the sound processing is done by Roon in both cases and the only difference is the transport mechanism used, not the processing/downsampling algos.

Since you are already positive that the more powerful processor, in a case where the processor is doing very little, is going to sound better, you should probably save your money and not bother buying  a Pi

[thumb5]

I seem to recall there is a specific hardware-related problem with split isochronous USB transfers on the Pi which causes fairly frequent clicks during audio playback. Not sure to what extent it is/was work-aroundable in software. I may be wrong, just going from memory as I did some audio work on it a while ago.

[fritzcurtis1]

Atter...you are correct. It is the shared USB/Ethernet issue that is the issue.  I have also ordered from Andrew the SotM USB Digital Interface.  I will run a USB reclocker out of the Sonore then into the SotM and into the Dialog.  The issue with the Optical direct into the Dialog is it does have a small bit of jitter, albeit not much.  Utilizing the SotM, this will eliminate the most of the jitter before heading into the Dialog for distribution into the Phantoms.  I will post a review as well.

[fritzcurtis1]

Atter...you are correct. It is the shared USB/Ethernet issue that is the issue.  I have also ordered from Andrew the SotM USB Digital Interface.  I will run a USB reclocker out of the Sonore then into the SotM and into the Dialog.  The issue with the Optical direct into the Dialog is it does have a small bit of jitter, albeit not much.  Utilizing the SotM, this will eliminate the most of the jitter before heading into the Dialog for distribution into the Phantoms.  I will post a review as well.

[agillis]

Just to answer a few questions here.  First we have fixed the output rates on the SPDIF port of the Sonicorbiter SE.  It now supports 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz, and 192kHz both in 16 bit and 24 bit.

Next the supported rates of the Devialet Phantom and Bridge.   Devialet does not list what sample rates they support in any of their literature or their web site. But the Devialet users I have talked to have determined through testing that Devialet also supports all of these rates.

Now on to DSD. Devialet does not support DSD so it's important to convert DSD to PCM if you want to play DSD on the Devialet.

DSD 64 is 2.8224 mHz at 1 bit which would be the same as 176.4kHz at 16 bit. Since 176.4kHz is a multiple of 2.8224 mHz you get a very good conversion to 176.4kHz. This is what Roon does.

As for volume control. You can do software volume control in Roon. Roon Server uses a very good resampling algorithm for this. You get the advantage of controlling both the volume and music played from one app. If you want the Devialet to do the volume control you will need to use their app. You should make sure you are only useing one app for control and have volume disable (set to 100%) in the other.

Only listening tests will determine if fidelity of Roon or Devialet volume control is better or the same.

If you are using Roon you get some advantages using a RoonReady certified endpoint, such as the Sonicorbiter SE.A certified endpoint has been tested in Roon's lab and guaranteed to have the highest quality connection. You can see, in the attached image, the Roon Advanced Audio Transport light is on at the Sonicorbiter SE end of the chain.

[Atter]

Just to answer a few questions here.  First we have fixed the output rates on the SPDIF port of the Sonicorbiter SE.  It now supports 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz, and 192kHz both in 16 bit and 24 bit.

Next the supported rates of the Devialet Phantom and Bridge.   Devialet does not list what sample rates they support in any of their literature or their web site. But the Devialet users I have talked to have determined through testing that Devialet also supports all of these rates.

Now on to DSD. Devialet does not support DSD so it's important to convert DSD to PCM if you want to play DSD on the Devialet.

DSD 64 is 2.8224 mHz at 1 bit which would be the same as 176.4kHz at 16 bit. Since 176.4kHz is a multiple of 2.8224 mHz you get a very good conversion to 176.4kHz. This is what Roon does.

As for volume control. You can do software volume control in Roon. Roon Server uses a very good resampling algorithm for this. You get the advantage of controlling both the volume and music played from one app. If you want the Devialet to do the volume control you will need to use their app. You should make sure you are only useing one app for control and have volume disable (set to 100%) in the other.

Only listening tests will determine if fidelity of Roon or Devialet volume control is better or the same.

If you are using Roon you get some advantages using a RoonReady certified endpoint, such as the Sonicorbiter SE.A certified endpoint has been tested in Roon's lab and guaranteed to have the highest quality connection. You can see, in the attached image, the Roon Advanced Audio Transport light is on at the Sonicorbiter SE end of the chain.

Couple of questions for you -

1.  Brian, the CTO of Roon, implied that the lack of 88.2 and 176.4 were a limitation of the iMX6 processor used in the Sonicorbiter.  - from his post on the Roon forums -

"The SonicOrbiter SE's s/pdif port has a unique (and unfortunate, IMO) quirk: It only supports the following rates:
44.1, 48, 96, 192
This is extremely unusual in the world of audio products--it's customary to support rates in pairs--meaning that a device that supports 96k should support 88.2k as well, and 192k support should imply 176.4k support. As I recall, this limitation comes from the iMX6 itself, since the S/PDIF interface used on the SonicOrbiter SE is built into the SoC."

Obviously, as stated in your post, 176.4 is v. important for DSD playback.

Are you saying you've managed to get the processor to do something it wasn't designed to do?   Or was it not a limitation of the processor and just a software issue in your program?

2. What are the advantages of the Roon Advanced Audio Transport over Squeezbox (upto 192k, as this is the max that's relevant in this discussion)?  All the audio processing is done in Roon regardless of the transport, so why is RAAT better than Squeezebox?

Thanks

Atter