Devialet Expert isn't good in showing secondary harmonics?

[Jeffaz]

Exactly. He mentioned that the cables would help with these harmonics.

Well, when I want to listen the "warmth" of tubes, I have a small tube buffer (Little Bear brand), so I can pass the sound through it.

I also use Pure Music Player on a Mac Mini. This player supports VST and AU audio plug-ins, and there are tube amp plug-ins for free on Internet.

So, I have tubes, both real and virtual.

[ogs]

Can people actually hear these things?

I don't mean 'does it make a difference', I mean more like someone plays you some music through a new amplifier and you, having years of listening experience, say 'thats absolutely lovely, but it's somewhat lacking in second harmonics, which I'm finding a touch lower than the 3rd harmonics - I think if we just had a 10% increase in the 2nd harmonics, things would really fall into place with a lovely balanced coherent sound' type thing…..

I obviously dont know what Im talking about, but Im always fascinated when people can identify such things.  On lots of forum posts I've read recently people were able to hear all sorts - jitter in the order of picoseconds, USB grounds, specific FIR filters etc etc.  I doubt I'd know what any of these things sounded like unless I was guided through it in a lab environment.

It is possible to hear, yes, but not quite the way you describe.   If an amp only produces odd order distortion you'd probably find it "cold" or "sterile" - especially if you then compare it to a similar design with even order distortion dominating. The distortion signature is of course not the only factor. McIntosh uses transformer outputs even on their transistor designs to "balance" the sound... Feedback vs no feedback is one factor - and so on.

[JohnnySix]

I took this to refer to reproducing the "timbre" or "colour" of instruments via all their natural harmonics. It is generally assumed that digital equipment often fails to convey it, and can sound 'grey' by comparison. It's one of those things you might not miss until you hear it done properly. After hearing Dan D'Agnostino tube amps at Hi-Fi shows, one can begin to see the point...

[GuillaumeB]

I took this to refer to reproducing the "timbre" or "colour" of instruments via all their natural harmonics. It is generally assumed that digital equipment often fails to convey it, and can sound 'grey' by comparison. It's one of those things you might not miss until you hear it done properly. After hearing Dan D'Agnostino tube amps at Hi-Fi shows, one can begin to see the point...

I know what you mean, the trouble is some insist that this is a colouration. BTW I understand D'Agostino are solid state. Still your point is an interesting one. 

Funnily enough I believe the Original d'Atelier is a major step forward in this regard. Well I'm obviously biased but the one thing I notice with the O d'A are improved tonal colours. There is something "different" about the sound and I hope that they are eventually able to trickle this down to the rest of the range. 

Guillaume

[thumb5]

I took this to refer to reproducing the "timbre" or "colour" of instruments via all their natural harmonics. It is generally assumed that digital equipment often fails to convey it, and can sound 'grey' by comparison. It's one of those things you might not miss until you hear it done properly. After hearing Dan D'Agnostino tube amps at Hi-Fi shows, one can begin to see the point...

OK, I'll bite...

What is special about the "timbre" or "colour" of instruments that somehow makes them more difficult for digital equipment to convey?

I would rather expect that the digital equipment is reproducing the input accurately and that the valve amp is adding pleasant-sounding distortion (typically high levels of even harmonics).  Describing that as a "failing" of the digital equipment would be incorrect in a technical or objective sense, unless confirmed by measurement, although of course it might subjectively be considered not to one's personal taste.

In any case, a blanket statement like the one referred to in the OP seems to me to be trying to portray a subjective opinion in as an objective fact.

[Confused]

I'm with thumb on this one .......

[Damon]

I'm with thumb on this one .......

As am I. I've had a few tube amps in the past, and still have a modified Dynamo ST70 somewhere, and I think that the Dev really gives me access to the nuances in the music (or in the recording or file). It's all the micro things; tiny, subtle changes in volume, tone, pitch, timing, that reveal how a singer changes the shape of their throat or mouth, or how a sax player slips air beside the mouthpiece, or how a string is plucked or fretted or bowed.

Crikey, what a sentence.... . I have not heard really expensive tube amps, but the McIntoshes I heard a few months ago were really unappealing, if that is any comparison. I don't know what they were, but there were two mono block power amps, each the size of a sea turtle.