New product launch?

[SwissBear]

I was just thinking... 3 months after the arrival of my O d'A the first deliveries of the 1000 Pro are expected. 

Not only that but if you owned a pair of D Premiers and hadn't bothered with the last update (to 250) you'd now be able to get yours upgraded to full 1000 Pro spec long before my O d'A. And let's not even talk about costs...

Actually everyone gets to upgrade before me! And yet everyone's complaining. 

It's a good thing this O d'A sounds so bloody good! 

Guillaume

Hi Guillaume,

I understand your feelings very well as you perfectly know.
But you should consider yourself privileged to have an operational OdA IMHO.

Mine was so upset by the news it would not be upgraded to D1000 early enough that it went on strike and refused to take the new firmware.

So instead of being upgraded to D1000, my D900 was downgraded to D250. And I still feel happy as the Devialet configurator accepted to produce a D250 config file which transformed my D900 Master into a D250.
The Companion is going back to Paris for repair.

That's life I suppose

[Soniclife]

it appears that the upgrade price for the 400's is CAN $10127 and $6747 if your unit was purchased in 2016.

I wonder how that works if you only bought your companion unit this year, but bought the master unit the year before?

[Dr Tone]

Advantages for purchase in 2016?  Just had an interesting conversation with a local dealer here in Vancouver.  All this news is also new to the dealer network but it appears that the upgrade price for the 400's is CAN $10127 and $6747 if your unit was purchased in 2016.  The upgrade is initiated and handled by the dealer.  They will realize some revenue from the transaction so are willing to demo the new series if you brought in the earlier series for comparison.  (When they have new in stock). He didn't say as much but I heard a level of disappoinment with the new pricing tier and the cost for the upgrade.  He had expected it to be a far less expensive upgrade.  I also gleamed a certain hesitation and concern with marketing the Expert line at the new price points and that they may be evaluating whether to move forward with the product.  This is all conjecture on my part as his enthusiasm for the sonics were clearly evident.  Obviously a music lover.
The $10127 CAN is a $1400 increase over the EUR 5990 price quoted in the email so it is clear the national distributor and local dealership take a bite out of it as well.  We're fodder for the mill.

So the 3490EUR for the D200 is $5200 CDN.  Tack on about $700 at least more for the distributor and or dealership.  $6000.  Add taxes.

Youza!

[Wdw]

I question their strategy...are they attempting to put this product in the Philipe Patek watch category, highly priced so to infer exclusivity, fashion and wealth?
The few high net worth indiviuals I am acquainted with are simply not interested in "high end" audio at all....may be music lovers but would balk at these prices and if listening to my system, although they may acknowledge how good it sounds, would never consider spending the type of money required.
Your typical audiophile likes his boxes and wires so who are they targeting when the price bumps up and the upgrade is hellishly expensive?

[octaviars]

I know my dealer says the distributor in Sweden dont give them good prices so there is not a lot to do on the prices on Devialet today. I bought my 200 and 200 Companion with 20% off when I bought them and that was in 2014 and 2015 but today I think the prices might be higher.

I recently got prices for two Silver Phantoms, two Gecko and one Dialog and the best price in Sweden is around 1300€ more than I got from a shop in Germany. I talked to my dealer and he told that the distributor was to blame otherwise he would match the price.

I still hope it is so that there is something to do on the price of the upgrade and I think my dealer will do it for me without making any profit for him self.

[IanG-UK]

I’ve read most, if not all, the posts on this thread, most recently the ones about pricing, which are generally critical of Devialet.

So I accept that this post, which defends Devialet, will be subject to criticism from many! But I do think that they have an impossible task in trying to get a set of pricings which satisfy the majority, when they have a product range which allows upgrades (stereo to dual mono) and provides for non-obsolescence - across a range of fluctuating currencies and differing purchase tax rates - with different distributor and dealership arrangements and with the non-obsolescence undertaking being a direct service from Devialet and not one necessarily involving the same dealer and/or distributor margins.

I would say that I infrequently defend Devialet, having criticised them regularly for customer service, for communication and for AIR failures. But I commend them for innovation, design, flexibility, non-obsolescence, and employing some people like Mathieu Pernot in France and Joachim and Antoine (and previously Yann) in the UK who always try to be helpful from what I suspect has been misjudged leadership in the past - something which looks to have a chance of improving following Monsieur Sannie’s letter. I think we often forget that on DC.

Anyway, the pricing, where I have rounded for ease of understanding and where m) means master and c) means companion and P means Pro:

Old pre-Pro UK prices are (Stoneaudio website):

120    £4k

200m £5.5k

250m £10k

200c  £4.5k

250c  £8k

400   £10k

800   £18k

New Pro UK prices are (Fanthorpes website):

130P     £5k

220Pm  £7k

250Pm  £12.5k

220Pc   £6k

250Pc   £11.5k

440P     £12k

1000P   £23k

So the average percentage increase is what would generally be regarded as a substantial 29% for a change from a Mk 1 to a Mk 2 model. However, it’s pretty safe to say that none of us has yet heard an old to new comparison, side by side, at home; very few of us have heard a 1000 Pro, but only in a shop (as was demonstrated by Oxford Audio earlier this month); but a few of us have experienced the closest thing to a Pro, namely the OdA, for up to six months, having previously owned an 800.

Judgement of quality improvements are personal and subjective, but I can without doubt say that, in my opinion, they are significant, in terms of perception of power, retrieval of detail, and (most significantly) recreation of the acoustic space - and these improvements still surprise me, six months on from taking delivery of my OdA. This is not a “standard” Mk 1 to Mk 2 change, in my view.

If the improvements in the four Pro variants (130P, 220P, 250P, 440P) give a similarly proportionate uplift in quality, owners are in for a treat, in my opinion. And it may be that the 800 to 1000P change surpasses that currently delivered by the 800 to OdA change.

When one looks at the upgrade offers, there are three stereo ones and two dual mono ones. 

The upgrades covering120 to 220Pm, the 200m to 220Pm and the 250m to 250Pm all cost £3k, simply because they all involve just about the same replacement parts. To be pedantic, it is possible that the 200 and 250 keep their existing phono/pre-out stages whereas the 120 gets a new phono/pre-out stage; and it seems that the 250 gets a new bottom plate in solid copper. But these are pretty modest differences in the overall scheme of things.

The upgrades covering 400 to 440P costs £4.5k and 800 to 1000P costs £5k. So that is £1.5k for the 220Pc and £2k for the 250Pc - because there will be savings on the streaming board and on the testing process, but probably a bit more cost on the 250Pc because I guess it has a more comprehensive power supply and thermal management components, given that the 440P simply doubles the 220P output whereas the 1000P quadruples the 250P output.

If one assumes that a pre-Pro unit has been owned typically for 1.5 years (the units have generally been around for 3 years) and that depreciation is 25% in the first year and 10% in the following six months (and this is probably on the low side for conventional high end hifi gear), then the normal approach of old sale and new purchase would incur these costs:

120 to 220Pm    £4.3k 

200m to 220Pm £3.3k

250m to 250Pm £5.75k

400 to 440P       £5.25k

800 to 1000P     £10.85k

Whereas one can get to the same ownership level through a £3k cost for the first three upgrades, a £4.5k cost for the second upgrade and a £5k cost for the third upgrade. All cheaper than the sale and purchase route, though not linearly. 

Given that the Pro upgrade program will have overall sales and profits targets with uncertainly/variability as to volume levels absolutely, by currency, by transit cost and by some modest margin allowances for dealers and distributors who are otherwise being denied sales, this is an impossible equation to balance “fairly” particularly when the stereo improvements involve just about the same new hardware.

It is also the case that the 250 and 800/100 pricing carry the history of a relatively high price for the D-Premier and the dual D-Premier, in an era when Devialet had to amortise R&D costs over a smaller sales volume. Hence the upgrade savings for the 250m to the 250Pm and for the 800 to the 1000P are disproportionately high compared with the others.

So, taking what I know into account, I think Devialet has probably done a fair job. There are three choices: one can do a sale and purchase, or an upgrade, or do nothing. After all, the pre-Pro models have not suddenly got worse - they are the same as they were six months ago.

Those of us who chose the 800 to OdA route have paid the most, absolutely and probably proportionately too. Maybe a bad choice, but my choice, so given that Devialet is now taking us to the 1000P level for free, we have little to grumble about.

[AaronG]

Excellent post and spot on!

I’ve read most, if not all, the posts on this thread, most recently the ones about pricing, which are generally critical of Devialet.

[Celts88]

Advantages for purchase in 2016?  Just had an interesting conversation with a local dealer here in Vancouver.  All this news is also new to the dealer network but it appears that the upgrade price for the 400's is CAN $10127 and $6747 if your unit was purchased in 2016.  The upgrade is initiated and handled by the dealer.  They will realize some revenue from the transaction so are willing to demo the new series if you brought in the earlier series for comparison.  (When they have new in stock). He didn't say as much but I heard a level of disappoinment with the new pricing tier and the cost for the upgrade.  He had expected it to be a far less expensive upgrade.  I also gleamed a certain hesitation and concern with marketing the Expert line at the new price points and that they may be evaluating whether to move forward with the product.  This is all conjecture on my part as his enthusiasm for the sonics were clearly evident.  Obviously a music lover.
The $10127 CAN is a $1400 increase over the EUR 5990 price quoted in the email so it is clear the national distributor and local dealership take a bite out of it as well.  We're fodder for the mill.

So the 3490EUR for the D200 is $5200 CDN.  Tack on about $700 at least more for the distributor and or dealership.  $6000.  Add taxes.

Youza!

5,990EUR for D-P's to 1000Pro is $8,750AUD. I've been quoted $22,000AUD for the upgrade from local dealer ($13,500 extra, nearly 150% uplift), so if you think they're getting it bad in Canada try over here in Oz.

[wikeeboy]

Advantages for purchase in 2016?  Just had an interesting conversation with a local dealer here in Vancouver.  All this news is also new to the dealer network but it appears that the upgrade price for the 400's is CAN $10127 and $6747 if your unit was purchased in 2016.  The upgrade is initiated and handled by the dealer.  They will realize some revenue from the transaction so are willing to demo the new series if you brought in the earlier series for comparison.  (When they have new in stock). He didn't say as much but I heard a level of disappoinment with the new pricing tier and the cost for the upgrade.  He had expected it to be a far less expensive upgrade.  I also gleamed a certain hesitation and concern with marketing the Expert line at the new price points and that they may be evaluating whether to move forward with the product.  This is all conjecture on my part as his enthusiasm for the sonics were clearly evident.  Obviously a music lover.
The $10127 CAN is a $1400 increase over the EUR 5990 price quoted in the email so it is clear the national distributor and local dealership take a bite out of it as well.  We're fodder for the mill.

So the 3490EUR for the D200 is $5200 CDN.  Tack on about $700 at least more for the distributor and or dealership.  $6000.  Add taxes.

Youza!

5,990EUR for D-P's to 1000Pro is $8,750AUD. I've been quoted $22,000AUD for the upgrade from local dealer (nearly 150% uplift), so if you think they're getting it bad in Canada try over here in Oz.

Hi mate,

It's possible that the dealer accidentally doubled the upgrade price for 2 D-Prems mistakenly? $11k sounds more like it?

Will find out tonight.

[Celts88]

So the 3490EUR for the D200 is $5200 CDN.  Tack on about $700 at least more for the distributor and or dealership.  $6000.  Add taxes.

Youza!

5,990EUR for D-P's to 1000Pro is $8,750AUD. I've been quoted $22,000AUD for the upgrade from local dealer (nearly 150% uplift), so if you think they're getting it bad in Canada try over here in Oz.

Hi mate,

It's possible that the dealer accidentally doubled the upgrade price for 2 D-Prems mistakenly? $11k sounds more like it?

Will find out tonight.

Jeremy

That's what I said to my dealer, it's double what I was expecting . An extra $2,250 here in Oz over the costings for Europe would be a lot more closer to what I would expect (25% uplift).

Hope you have fun tonight, and manage to get some answers for yourself 

Would be good if you could get any info regarding the streamer board (or is it now called an 'OS Card') and if it's free if going with the new Pro upgrades (is it local dealer upgradeable or even self upgradeable).

Also are they looking at upgrading the remote app, as this is long in the tooth and would have thought they could at least put more functionality in that (every other software apps have soooooooooooo much more that the Devialet app).

One last thing, are they really looking at getting onboard with Roon, or are they just tweaking AIR to work a bit better together. Now if they could make the Experts into a Roon endpoint that would be the best, and hoping the new 'OS Card' will achieve this.

I can see Julien Bergere getting his ear bent a lot tonight from you 

Cheers
John