microRendu - Sound Quality observations and comparisons

[Celts88]

I haven't compared to solutions like those of Auralic, Aurender, Melco etc. as I don't like the closed platforms these run and the prices they charge but this is my list with scores. Please, consider the scores HIGHLY subjective and indicative, they're not absolutes!! 

500 Sonore microRendu (Curious USB 0.2m) with Mutec MC-3+ USB (AES/EBU)
400 DIY music server (Curious USB 0.8m) with Mutec MC-3+ USB (AES/EBU)

Genuine question.

Why would I buy a Sonore microRendu / Curious USB 0.2m / Mutec MC-3+ USB when I could buy an Antipodes DS Server with internal 2Tb HDD, CD Ripper, and choice of either USB or AES output for a similar price (well, over here in Australia it would be)?

I can have a one box solution with the Antipodes DS with internal HDD (SSD is too much for me at present) instead of microRendu and Mutec

Antipodes DS

One would probably do this for one reason: better sound quality. And although I 'feel' the microRendu should easily outperform the Antipodes DS (which is in it's basis a hard- and software optimized PC running Linux) I can't be sure as I have never heard it myself. I haven't come across any comparisons between the two as well.

Comparing the functionality of both is an apples to oranges comparison. The microRendu is designed to be a lightweight and thus low-noise, HQ output endpoint/renderer, so not a powerful feature rich machine. Of of the key design principles behind the mR is to move the 'heavy lifting' upstream on different computer as far away from the DAC as possible. 

The sonicTransporter could for example be such a machine although to me this is nothing but a low cost, small and power efficient machine but of course pre-configured software wise. Any computer (PC or Mac) could do though.

Personally with computer audio I believe the days of needing or wanting optimized computers are near to over and I think we'll be moving more and more to purpose built hardware like the microRendu or purpose built bridging hardware that'll take some output from a general purpose computer and convert that to USB/AES/EBU/SPDIF/I2S/...for example a Dante/Ravenna device like the Merging NADAC (but without the built-in DAC) or something like an Focusrite Rednet device (or one similar future device targeted at consumer/high end audio) that'll accept an ethernet input and output SPDIF/AES/EBU. So a bit more like AIR and the streamers like those of an Aurender but without the closed ecosystem lock-in of those platforms.

The idea behind AIR IMO has always been a great one, it's execution OTOH less so! 

The Antipodes may be "a hard- and software optimized PC running Linux", but the microRendu also needs a computer to send it music files, and as double the cables (not counting if people also add in a Mutec). Both options are not much difference in price (if going with PC/microRendu/Mutec option, or Antipodes DS), and I like the idea of this all being contained in the one unit (Antipodes).

Now if AIR worked we could go direct from a PC and wouldn't the extra box or cable 

Realise this isn't an AIR thread, but still don't understand what the benefit of AIR is, does it have something where no Jitter reaches the Devialet by going via Wi-Fi, and the Devialet does it's magic internally with the music file via internal DAC/etc.

[Antoine]

All I know is the microRendu with Mutec "smokes" my DIY PC, which smoked AIR2 (haven't heard AIR3 yet). The Antipodes DS doesn't look special to me but I have no experience with it. Furthermore I personally don't care about pre-configured software, I can do this myself and I'll also build my own PC at a much better value than anything off the shelf. I don't care about price (within reasonable limits of course), just SQ and value.

So you see to me it's all very subjective and we all have our own requirements. I also won't advise anyone to buy A or B. People should either try for themselves or find people who actually compared these different solutions.

[Dr Tone]

Some measurements:

Measurements of Sonore microRendu Streamer

[Antoine]

I had also seen those. First the Regen and now the microRendu. What we're hearing must all be in our heads..LOL

Very poorly executed but even if it wasn't, an exercise as this in itself is about as worthless as a picture of the device for determining it's SQ/character.

I'm glad he wrote he's going to re-write the first post but he should have been much more careful in the first place, for his own reputation (what's left of it after everything that has happened on WBF) but especially because of the possible damaging effect it could have on the sales of the product. Above all his agenda/contempt is clearly shining through when you consider not just this thread but also his history with Alex Crespi and John Swenson, so perhaps that explains the carelessness as well.

Edit; one thing it does show is that the iFi isn't the best PSU out there (well duh...). The line noise seems to bleed through the microRendu and his DAC. Of course ideally these devices shouldn't be susceptible and block/further attenuate this noise. Sonore has been very clear that the microRendu sounds great with the cheap iFi but benefits greatly from better PSU's.

[GuillaumeB]

one thing it does show is that the iFi isn't the best PSU out there

Ha I think you said before that you didn't trust their claims. By the way this isn't the first time I've read some negative comments about them.

This is making me think about replacing the iFi that I use with my Paul Pang switch with a cheap linear power supply from MCRU. It's this switch that feeds into my d1 server, so getting a little too close to my hifi for comfort.

On the subject of the mR this also shows how important the power supply is. Of course Sonore have already said this, advice that was headed by Chris Conaker with his CA review. Those opting for iFi power supplies might be underbaking the recipe. So why are they recommending/selling the iFi?!

Guillaume

[octaviars]

I use the iFi but plans are to get something better in the future. Why did I buy it, well I needed a PSU and it is not so expensive when you buy it in package with the microRendu. Sonore also stated that a better PSU will yeild better result but perhaps not everyone is willing to pay more for the PSU than they paid for the microRendu. The iFi is a SMPS and I think that is hard to get rid of everything from the switching but the question is is it audible?

[Confused]

So why are they recommending/selling the iFi? Because it offers probably just about the best performance you can get for a low price. The microRendu is a low cost item and will be used in low budget systems. If your whole system costs £1.5k or if you are using a microRendu for a mini system in your kitchen, the iFi is surely just the job? If you want to push the boundaries of performance in a more revealing system, spend more on a top notch PSU.

I did start thinking that this was off topic for the microRendu sound quality observations thread, but maybe it is not. Now we have a few microRendus in use with Devialet's, it would be interesting to read SQ comparisons from those moving from the iFi to better PSU's. Oh, and I've ordered an iFi with mine..... Currently I see the microRendu as a bit of a punt, will it stay in my system for a significant time? I'm not sure yet, but if it looks like it's a keeper, then I will treat it to a better PSU, but the iFi will do for now.

[octaviars]

No matter what some might say about the microRendu the thing only costs 640$ and many compares it to much more expensive stuff and many thinks it is as good or even better.
First time I held it in my hand I thougt this was not much, the smallest piece of kit I own in my system but that little piece of kit plays music like nothing else I have owned or tried.
And then someone here got my thinking of would it be better with a Mutec, well it doesn't hurt to go throug the Mutec and convert USB to AES. I do feel that the Mutec and AES input is a winner. I use a brand new AES cable right now so I will let that play for a couple of hours before I make any critical listening.

Now my system is playing with Bubble upnp app on Android. MicroRendu -> Cabledyne Silver USB -> Mutec MC 3+USB -> Cabledyne digital silver XLR -> Devialet 400 -> Focal Sopra No.2

[GuillaumeB]

The microRendu is a low cost item and will be used in low budget systems.  If your whole system costs £1.5k or if you are using a microRendu for a mini system in your kitchen, the iFi is surely just the job?  If you want to push the boundaries of performance in a more revealing system, spend more on a top notch PSU.

I'm not so sure Confused. To me several hundred pounds for a renderer is quite a lot of money and given the way it has been positioned and marketed I suspect it will end up in many high end systems - as we are witnessing here. If I were running a budget system I would probably look to use something like a Raspberry Pie or Cubox.

Given the fact that it seems as though this thing is very sensitive to mains noise, I would probably think about starting off with a "budget" LPS rather than use the iFi which Amir has shown injects a fair bit of noise into the system confirming Antoine's worst fears about the device. A device incidentally that I've bought too. 

I seem to remember reading a fair number of complaints relating to the iFi iPower on PFM.

Guillaume

[Confused]

The microRendu is a low cost item and will be used in low budget systems.  If your whole system costs £1.5k or if you are using a microRendu for a mini system in your kitchen, the iFi is surely just the job?  If you want to push the boundaries of performance in a more revealing system, spend more on a top notch PSU.

I'm not so sure Confused. To me several hundred pounds for a renderer is quite a lot of money and given the way it has been positioned and marketed I suspect it will end up in many high end systems - as we are witnessing here. If I were running a budget system I would probably look to use something like a Raspberry Pie or Cubox.

Given the fact that it seems as though this thing is very sensitive to mains noise, I would probably think about starting off with a "budget" LPS rather than use the iFi which Amir has shown injects a fair bit of noise into the system confirming Antoine's worst fears about the device. A device incidentally that I've bought too. 

I seem to remember reading a fair number of complaints relating to the iFi iPower on PFM.

Guillaume

Yes, thinking about it my kitchen system comment was probably a bit wide of the mark!  Anyway, for me it is simple, the microRendu is already on order with the iFi.  If after a few weeks I decide the microRendu is a keeper, then the iFi will be replaced.  I think I need to see how much I like the microRendu, this will then dictate how much I spend on the PSU.  By then, the UltraCap LPS1 should be available, although maybe not, it looks like they are having a few production issues with the thing.