Expert Pro sound quality

[Rufus McDufus]

I've finally heard a Pro! I borrowed a D220Pro from Oxford Audio over the last week in place of my D200. I've held back as I've been in a bit of a sceptical mood lately and I was prepared to be a little underwhelmed with the upgrade. Well... I was wrong! the D220Pro is *significantly* better. Firstly addition detail, bigger soundstage (almost as if the left-right separation seems more distinct), and everything is more in focus so easier to follow.
What I was really interested in, as I've always felt the D200 was a little lacking in power/grip for my Raidho C-1.1s, was how it would perform with the extra 10% power. I found the 170->200 upgrade in firmware a little underwhelming on the D200 and couldn't hear much of a difference. The D220Pro however, despite being only 10% more power, seems to have the speakers well and truly under control and it's transformed things. I'm wondering if the efficiency is improved because that extra 10% seems to be making a big difference. The only snag is it's made me want more power!

So is it worth the extra £3,000 for the upgrade? It is a lot but the upgrade is really substantial.

Thank you so much to OAC for lending me the amp and making it all so easy. I hope I'm not upsetting the applecart here by passing on the news (if it is news - I think we probably knew already) that the upgrade offer is probably going to be extended into 2017 - but the streamer card will not be included beyond upgrades from the end of December... Knowing Devialet this possibly isn't set in concrete but seems to be the situation as of now.

[Rufus McDufus]

It just struck me - Devialet haven't really thought this through. By having a deadline on the end of December with the free streaming card offer,, they must really like working over Christmas!

[Soniclife]

Well... I was wrong! the D220Pro is *significantly* better. Firstly addition detail, bigger soundstage (almost as if the left-right separation seems more distinct), and everything is more in focus so easier to follow.

That sounds very much like what I heard going from 400 > 440.

What I was really interested in, as I've always felt the D200 was a little lacking in power/grip for my Raidho C-1.1s, was how it would perform with the extra 10% power. I found the 170->200 upgrade in firmware a little underwhelming on the D200 and couldn't hear much of a difference.   The D220Pro however, despite being only 10% more power, seems to have the speakers well and truly under control and it's transformed things. I'm wondering if the efficiency is improved because that extra 10% seems to be making a big difference.   The only snag is it's made me want more power!

I very much doubt the extra power is responsible for the improved sound, when I went from 200 to 400 there was a real improvement in grip, but it sounds in retrospect like brute force was being used to try and solve a problem, but the pro upgrade sounds like much better engineering that fixes the underlying problem.  I'm slightly tempted to see what how a 220 sounds like in my system, but I know I cannot be bothered to do this currently.

[Antoine]

I also don't think it's the 10% increased steady long term maximum output power but rather the way power is delivered: faster load transients with higher peak power and lower losses.

Also ADH resolution and responsiveness of the control algorithms have increased (lower distortion) and the level of decoupling from (dirty) AC has increased. I feel timing accuracy ('PRaT') has increased too because all of this and with it focus.

There's even more. This details it all: http://www.devialet.com/assets/V3/pdf/Wh...Pro-EN.pdf

[yabaVR]

I also don't think it's the 10% increased steady long term maximum output power but rather the way power is delivered: faster load transients with higher peak power and lower losses.

+1

For me the improvement is due to the loss of the Power-Filter-Board as it was a Riser-Board with this tiny pins to connect to the power supply. All the power through just some of this pins? No way to get enough juice through for the amp. Easy to improve...and they did. The same with the tiny filter elements in the IEC. Way too small for high currents. So they now build it on their own and use bigger electronic components (see Antoine's system pics with open 250PRO). Easy too. That's it (mostly) for the power.

gui

[Antoine]

That'll surely help (and probably is part of what Devialet calls 'the new power supply') but of course it's the sum of all changes including but not limited to the addition of four extra filter inductors and increased thickness (double) of the PCB traces on the class D board.

Power comes from a supply but it must also be controlled. Plus the devices using the power need to be able to use it without limits other than those the designer intended.

Edit; I'm not sure if what I said here makes a lot of sense. What I meant to say is that I wouldn't "belittle" the changes other than the ones you mention. There's many more differences including the ones I already mentioned but also, for example, the bigger inductors on the board that got loose in mine. There's also changes underneath the black transformer cover which are detailed here in this video: http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/0...-end-2016/

Don't take this the wrong way and I'm not saying that's what you think or said but in short I don't think your mods would make a non Pro model equal to a Pro model. Perhaps not even close.

[yabaVR]

That'll surely help (and probably is part of what Devialet calls 'the new power supply') but of course it's the sum of all changes including but not limited to the addition of four extra filter inductors and increased thickness (double) of the PCB traces on the class D board.

Power comes from a supply but it must also be controlled. Plus the devices using the power need to be able to use it without limits other than those the designer intended.

Edit; I'm not sure if what I said here makes a lot of sense. What I meant to say is that I wouldn't "belittle" the changes other than the ones you mention. There's many more differences including the ones I already mentioned but also, for example, the bigger inductors on the board that got loose in mine. There's also changes underneath the black transformer cover which are detailed here in this video: http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/0...-end-2016/

Don't take this the wrong way and I'm not saying that's what you think or said but in short I don't think your mods would make a non Pro model equal to a Pro model. Perhaps not even close.

It does make sense Antoine and sure I know it's the sum of all the improvements that makes the PRO-Sound.

I won't say that my mods make my D200 equal to a D220. It's because if you alter different parts/components of an amp you can not compare the achieved sound improvements. They would differ in several aspects. But you would get a tendency (e.g. eliminate the IEC-Filter-Component) of improvement. That's what I was talking about when I (did I?) compared it to the PRO.

Actually there is another mod I made first of all the others that gave the biggest impact but I don't want to talk of it yet (no Devialet-Style intended).

As I also had some D250 on my workbench to modify and the modded D200 (with first mod) was compared to an original D250 the D250 was outperformed by far. No chance ever.
Though if one knows the improvements in sound a D250 has in comparison to a D200 in original you could imagine these improvements (e.g. subtle resolution) 'under the hood' of the D250 but they would not come to surface (kind of nebulised) and the D200 (mod) came out with more clearness/stability/control.

If all mods were made to both the original difference in sound of the two is restored hence the D250 outperformes the D200 again.

gui

p.s. I really like to do a comparison of new/old(mod) but it seem's not to have as many PRO models in Berlin yet. Or are there any who like to do a comparison?

[Pim]

It just struck me - Devialet haven't really thought this through. By having a deadline on the end of December with the free streaming card offer,, they must really like working over Christmas!

They want your money before the end of the year. That doesn't mean they will do the upgrade before the end of the year.  They just want the Christmas bonus.

[yabaVR]

It just struck me - Devialet haven't really thought this through. By having a deadline on the end of December with the free streaming card offer,, they must really like working over Christmas!

They want your money before the end of the year. That doesn't mean they will do the upgrade before the end of the year.  They just want the Christmas bonus.

(off topic on) Raising turnover to enter stock market - (goes with their other high 'ambitions'   ) (off topic off)

[f1eng]

Timbre can be (actually is) added/changed by an amplifier having a sufficient level of euphonic distortion
A 3D effect can be added by increasing the background noise (at levels not directly audible) particularly if the noise is signal correlated.

I know this from experiments carried out a long time ago to research why LPs sounded so nice despite the technical weaknesses of the mastering, manufacturing and replay processes.

Many amplifiers, particularly those using transformers and/or low feedback add audible amounts of extra overtones which may make an instrument sound more pleasant to some even if not true to the microphone pickup.

Or one makes the electronics better to lower distortion and noise, in effect to let it get out of the way more to let more of the original source to come through.

Indeed, but a lot of enthusiasts choose to do the opposite, ie choose euphonic distortion, valve amplifiers, particularly SETs, and low feedback being popular examples. Some of the "noise reduction" strategies discussed on forums have no mechanism by which they actually reduce noise, Entek for example, but plenty of people prefer the sound they add.