Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Does Devialet Decimate DSD?
#11
(23-Jul-2016, 23:04)asiano Wrote:
(23-Jul-2016, 19:31)octaviars Wrote: Dont worry about Sopras sounding bright with Devialet. My Sopras sounds simply amazing with a D400, but do consider that they really like the extra power that a 400 brings to a 200 so an upgrade path should be on your mind if you get a 200
Have you used SAM with your Sopra's?  If so, did it improve the sound?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

A bit of topic now but yes I use SAM and the improvement is there but not a giant one.
Speakers:TAD CE-1. Amplifier: TAD M2500mk2. Digital: TAD DA1000-TX, Innuos Statement Next-gen, Innuos PhoenixNET.

Miscellaneous: Qobuz Studio, Ansuz Mainz 8 D2, Ansuz Darkz DTC, Tubulus Argentus ethernet cable, Tubulus Concentus USB cable, Tubulus Argentus V2 XLR cable, Tubulus Argentus V3 + V3 bass, iFi Nova powercables. 

Second system
Qobuz Studio -> Devialet Silver Phantom, Devialet Tree









Reply
#12
Reviving this old thread instead of starting a new one as I found this via a google search for devialet and dsd support...

One of the returns of the search from google was from devialet that stated max dsd support was 64:

Devialet Expert products can handle PCM signal up to 24/192 kHz and DSD 64. We implemented DOP (DSD over PCM) on USB since the firmware 8.
For more information about DSD format please consult the link here

I know in this 2016 thread, it was stated that support for higher dsd was to come. Or maybe it was just speculation at the time?

Anyway, I was playing around with Roon and my newly acquired lumin that can support dsd256 and pcm 384 but any time I adjusted Roon upsampling above dsd64, I get no audible output from my d200.

What is odd is that as far as I can tell, the devialet only supports up to 24/192,but if I do the same Roon upsample to max pcm, it shows the sample rate conversion from 44.1 to 384. But somehow the devialet is at least excepting this and maybe downconverting to 192? Whereas it can’t seem to do the same for an oversampled dsd file? I’m not really sure what is happening so I’m mostly posting this as my observations in hopes someone more knowledgeable can shed some light on the dev limitations and why the oversampled pcm rate could be accepted and output where the dsd could not.
Reply
#13
I think when Devialet say that they only support up to 24/192, that means that the Devialet will only accept up to 24/192 and DSD64 and that higher resolutions will simply not be accepted and that you won't get any sound, not that higher resolutions will be downsampled to 24/192 or DSD64 in order to deliver sound. I think that's why you're not getting any output from your 200 when you have Roon upsample above DSD64. I would expect you would also get no sound if you upsample beyond 24/192 with PCM.

You're also passing the Roon output through your Lumin which can accept higher than 24/192 and DSD64. The fact that the Lumin can handle higher resolutions doesn't change the limitations on the D200. It can still only accept 24/192 or DSD64. It doesn't matter whether you feed output to the D200 directly from Roon or pass it through the Lumin on the way, the D200 can't handle higher than 24/192 or DSD 64. There's no benefit to be gained by upsampling to higher than 24/192 or DSD 64 because the signal is just going to have to be downsampled to 24/192 or DSD 64 or lower if you want to get sound from the D200. If you want to upsample then do so but don't upsample to higher than 24/192 and if you actually have higher resolution source content than that, then downsample it to 24/192 or DSD64 or lower. Unnecessary digital signal processing should be avoided and upsampling above 24/192 or DSD 64 and then having to downsample to 24/192 or DSD 64 for the Devialet is unnecessary processing. Keep your processing steps to a minimum.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Reply
#14
(07-Feb-2019, 06:19)David A Wrote:  I think that's why you're not getting any output from your 200 when you have Roon upsample above DSD64. I would expect you would also get no sound if you upsample beyond 24/192 with PCM.
That’s what I couldn’t figure. With the pcm, it would show 384 on the lumin front window and Roon app but I was still getting sound out of my d200. But anything above dsd64 and I would not get any sound.
Is there anyway to look on the d200 window to show what the source it was accepting?
Reply
#15
(07-Feb-2019, 07:12)mmorrison55 Wrote:
(07-Feb-2019, 06:19)David A Wrote:  I think that's why you're not getting any output from your 200 when you have Roon upsample above DSD64. I would expect you would also get no sound if you upsample beyond 24/192 with PCM.
That’s what I couldn’t figure. With the pcm, it would show 384 on the lumin front window and Roon app but I was still getting sound out of my d200. But anything above dsd64 and I would not get any sound.
Is there anyway to look on the d200 window to show what the source it was accepting?

If you do a long press on the Input button of the physical remote, you will see the input resolution displayed below the volume level but if it's rejecting the input signal because the resolution is too high then it probably isn't going to show anything because it's not accepting anything.

To find out what's going on you need to also look at what's shown in the Roon Signal Path info display and also what audio settings are operative in the Lumin.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Reply
#16
After setting the upsampling in Roon to max (384), Roon confirms this in the screenshot. 

But using your suggestion of the long input on the remote, the dev shows 192. So if the dev is not downsampling the 384 to 192, then not sure what is going on. I may reach out to dev support for shits and giggles to see what they say. But for certain any Roon upsampling above dsd64 is not similarly supported like the pcm source above 192.


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
   
Reply
#17
If Roon is upsampling to 384 and the Devialet is receiving 192, the Lumin has to be downsampling to 192. The bottom line is that there's no point I can see in you upsampling to 384 in Roon so you should just upsample to 192 instead. I can't see any advantage to upsampling to 384 only to have it downsampled to 192 later in the signal path,
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Reply
#18
(07-Feb-2019, 22:09)David A Wrote: If Roon is upsampling to 384 and the Devialet is receiving 192, the Lumin has to be downsampling to 192. The bottom line is that there's no point I can see in you upsampling to 384 in Roon so you should just upsample to 192 instead. I can't see any advantage to upsampling to 384 only to have it downsampled to 192 later in the signal path,

Unless the up and down sampling process resulted in a sound that was preferred? But then I guess thats the only reason for doing any resampling....

>>> 1st Place Award: Devialet, last decades most disappointing technology purchase.  <<<

Reply
#19
(07-Feb-2019, 23:17)Hifi_swlon Wrote:
(07-Feb-2019, 22:09)David A Wrote: If Roon is upsampling to 384 and the Devialet is receiving 192, the Lumin has to be downsampling to 192. The bottom line is that there's no point I can see in you upsampling to 384 in Roon so you should just upsample to 192 instead. I can't see any advantage to upsampling to 384 only to have it downsampled to 192 later in the signal path,

Unless the up and down sampling process resulted in a sound that was preferred? But then I guess thats the only reason for doing any resampling....

True. I'm just against unnecessary digital processing on principle. I've found that keeping the processing as simple as possible usually produces what I think is a better result but every now and then doing the opposite does work.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Reply
#20
I’m not willing to say at this point if the upsampling is an improvement. I know it’s not worse. I tend to believe it’s similar to 4K video upconversion.while its definelty not as clear as a true 4K original source, it is an improvement over the std HD signal.

Back to the Roon upsampling, I checked my Lumin, and sure enough, the screen on the lumin shows 384/32. If it was doing the downconversion, I would think it would reflect this on the lumin “info” screen. I did end up opening a ticket with devialet to see what they have to say.if/when they reply, I will be sure to share here. If they confirm your thinking that the devialet is not downsampling, then I guess I will next follow up with Lumin to see what they have to say.

In all honesty, I don’t care.I'm just interested to understand how this all works.

Thanks all for the discussion. Fun stuff!
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)