Poll: Planning to upgrade to Pro?
Yes, am very likely to upgrade
No, not looking to upgrade
Waiting to get more information about SQ or other benefits
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So, who is planning to upgrade to a Pro?
#71
(07-Nov-2016, 12:32)GuillaumeB Wrote:
(07-Nov-2016, 12:14)Hifi_swlon Wrote: Probably the improvement 'leap' in these things is somewhat dependent on the specific setup and the weakest part of the system relevant to the rest.

That said I've definitely experienced two sets of speakers becoming significantly better (or at least different) with upgraded amps, and source changes. I know speakers do sound very different to one another, but they can often perform better with better electronics/source attached.

From my perspective I think you're far better off having better electronics and source than speakers. I read this advice elsewhere only after buying quite revealing speakers attached to gear that probably wasn't quite good enough for them. The problem being you 'hear' things yo really don't want to hear - the speakers doing very little to help you out and soften the sound - that's not their job after all. I'm sure it's all very system/preference dependent though.

The Devialet 200 isn't good enough for the PMC fact 8?! According to Jeff Fritz the 120 is good enough to drive the Magico Q7 mk2, possibly one of the best speakers in the world... 

Guillaume

Yeah I read that too! Well, I can't argue with him but we're all different I suppose. I'm pretty treble sensitive and I don't think the PMCs play very nice with the treble at the end of a 200. I think Womaz experienced similar with his 23's. I don't think the 200/PMC combo is very flattering treble-wise - I always felt it wasn't as nice as the chord Hugo setup I had.

I've never heard any magico though. Maybe they're just so amazing nothing can make them sound bad? But if the 120 is so amazing, why does anyone upgrade beyond it for anything other than driving the most difficult speakers in the world? I wouldn't base any future buying decisions on Jeff Fritz articles anyway. Big Grin

I know PMCs are developed/voiced using big bryston mono amps (according to PMC) and they recommend lots of current despite them being sensitive. I don't understand things well enough for that to make sense, but there definitely seems to be a consensus about it where I've looked.

Roon lifetime > Mac mini > ethernet > µRendu | Paul Hynes SR3 > Intona > Curious USB link > Devialet 250 Pro > PMC fact.8
- London, UK -

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#72
(07-Nov-2016, 13:01)Hifi_swlon Wrote:
(07-Nov-2016, 12:32)GuillaumeB Wrote:
(07-Nov-2016, 12:14)Hifi_swlon Wrote: Probably the improvement 'leap' in these things is somewhat dependent on the specific setup and the weakest part of the system relevant to the rest.

That said I've definitely experienced two sets of speakers becoming significantly better (or at least different) with upgraded amps, and source changes. I know speakers do sound very different to one another, but they can often perform better with better electronics/source attached.

From my perspective I think you're far better off having better electronics and source than speakers. I read this advice elsewhere only after buying quite revealing speakers attached to gear that probably wasn't quite good enough for them. The problem being you 'hear' things yo really don't want to hear - the speakers doing very little to help you out and soften the sound - that's not their job after all. I'm sure it's all very system/preference dependent though.

The Devialet 200 isn't good enough for the PMC fact 8?! According to Jeff Fritz the 120 is good enough to drive the Magico Q7 mk2, possibly one of the best speakers in the world... 

Guillaume

Yeah I read that too!  Well, I can't argue with him but we're all different I suppose. I'm pretty treble sensitive and I don't think the PMCs play very nice with the treble at the end of a 200. I think Womaz experienced similar with his 23's.  I don't think the 200 is very flattering treble-wise - I always felt it wasn't as nice as the chord Hugo setup I had.

I've never heard any magico though. Maybe they're just so amazing nothing can make them sound bad? But if the 120 is so amazing, why does anyone upgrade beyond it for anything other than driving the most difficult speakers in the world? I wouldn't base any future buying decisions on Jeff Fritz articles anyway.  Big Grin

Paul Messenger in 2009 writing about the Fact 8:

"The balance isn't entirely neutral, as the upper midband is a little 'forward', the more so because the upper bass and lower mid are just a shade shy. This tends to overemphasise detail slightly, which is arguably beneficial, but it can also add a touch of aggression when the volume is turned up high."

I wonder if this isn't just a case of a lack of synergy between the 200 and Fact 8? I imagine with something like a Linn system the Fact 8 would be fantastic as Linn can be a little polite with their presentation. Personally I've been quite impressed with PMC speakers, for e.g. at Windsor a couple of years ago. Can't remember what they were partnered with now...

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

O d'A no.63, Absolare Integrated Signature, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-six, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Transparent Ref XL digital cables, Transparent XL Gen 5 speaker cables, Ansuz Diamond Darkz, Shunyata mains cable prototypes, Shunyata Denali D6000/S, Shunyata Venom RCA, Audioquest Diamond Ethernet, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Paul Pang Audiophile switch w/ MCRU LPS,  sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD & MCRU LPS
UK
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#73
(07-Nov-2016, 13:23)GuillaumeB Wrote: Paul Messenger in 2009 writing about the Fact 8:

"The balance isn't entirely neutral, as the upper midband is a little 'forward', the more so because the upper bass and lower mid are just a shade shy. This tends to overemphasise detail slightly, which is arguably beneficial, but it can also add a touch of aggression when the volume is turned up high."

I wonder if this isn't just a case of a lack of synergy between the 200 and Fact 8? I imagine with something like a Linn system the Fact 8 would be fantastic as Linn can be a little polite with their presentation. Personally I've been quite impressed with PMC speakers, for e.g. at Windsor a couple of years ago. Can't remember what they were partnered with now...

Guillaume

Wow, you know your reviews! Wink

There's almost definitely some truth in that.

But right now the only change in my system is the removal of the 200, and the facts certainly sound more pleasing in the treble. The aggressive, fatiguing edge has gone at least.

Roon lifetime > Mac mini > ethernet > µRendu | Paul Hynes SR3 > Intona > Curious USB link > Devialet 250 Pro > PMC fact.8
- London, UK -

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#74
(07-Nov-2016, 13:45)Hifi_swlon Wrote: But right now the only change in my system is the removal of the 200, and the facts certainly sound more pleasing in the treble. The aggressive, fatiguing edge has gone at least.

What are you using instead??

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

O d'A no.63, Absolare Integrated Signature, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-six, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Transparent Ref XL digital cables, Transparent XL Gen 5 speaker cables, Ansuz Diamond Darkz, Shunyata mains cable prototypes, Shunyata Denali D6000/S, Shunyata Venom RCA, Audioquest Diamond Ethernet, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Paul Pang Audiophile switch w/ MCRU LPS,  sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD & MCRU LPS
UK
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#75
I'm saving that bit for a few more days at least... Just don't seem to be able to find enough time to listen/type at the moment.

Roon lifetime > Mac mini > ethernet > µRendu | Paul Hynes SR3 > Intona > Curious USB link > Devialet 250 Pro > PMC fact.8
- London, UK -

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#76
Please don't say a 300B SET... Angel
Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Sonos ZP90 (Cullen modified), Devialet 440 Pro, Kaiser Chiara
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#77
No it's a stack of 16B3 Pros.

(Just kidding. It's not)

Roon lifetime > Mac mini > ethernet > µRendu | Paul Hynes SR3 > Intona > Curious USB link > Devialet 250 Pro > PMC fact.8
- London, UK -

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#78
(07-Nov-2016, 13:55)Hifi_swlon Wrote: No it's a stack of 16B3 Pros.

(Just kidding. It's not)

Haha now your post in "Your Systems" makes sense.... change is in the air  Big Grin

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

O d'A no.63, Absolare Integrated Signature, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-six, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Transparent Ref XL digital cables, Transparent XL Gen 5 speaker cables, Ansuz Diamond Darkz, Shunyata mains cable prototypes, Shunyata Denali D6000/S, Shunyata Venom RCA, Audioquest Diamond Ethernet, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Paul Pang Audiophile switch w/ MCRU LPS,  sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD & MCRU LPS
UK
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#79
Haha, yeah, more change.....

Thinking about your Paul messenger quote, that seems fairly consistent with my general tone settings these days of +2 or more bass, -6.5ish treble. I thought it was the room, but perhaps more the speakers (or a mix). Until I'd measured I'd always been pumping up the bass, but once I saw the graphs I could see it was more the treble reduction needed. You'd think they'd be the same thing (well I did anyway) but they're not. I wish I'd listened earlier to people that said to measure - would probably have helped reduce the onset of slight tinnitus. Oh well.

Ok sorry going off topic here.

Roon lifetime > Mac mini > ethernet > µRendu | Paul Hynes SR3 > Intona > Curious USB link > Devialet 250 Pro > PMC fact.8
- London, UK -

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