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Can I enable SAM for re-branded TAD E-1?
#1
Hi:
I own Pioneer S1-EX  speakers which are not SAMed.  This speaker uses either the same or similar drivers as TAD Evolution-1. Since E-1 was released later, there could be more refinements to the drivers. What kind of risks would I be taking by enabling SAM in my setup for E-1? 

Here're the specs for these 2 speakers
E-1 : http://www.stereophile.com/content/tad-e...whgY2ll.97
S1-EX : http://www.stereophile.com/content/pione...HbDKv6h.97
Oppo-203 / SonicTransporter i7 Roon Core ->Trinnov Altitute-16->TAD M2500MK-1 -> TAD CR-1
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#2
Hi Sam,

I think that most responses you get will tell you that this is not a good idea. Though the drivers are similar, they are not the same, and the crossover design is different as is the cabinet and other design parameters. So, there is the potential for speaker damage. Personally, I used a SAM profile for a newer ProAc Tablette on my old Tablettes. It does make a difference, but ultimately I removed it; I never used SAM at 100% in any event. So, I've done it, but I don't think there is a truthful benefit to doing so. (truthful meaning closer to the designed performance)

Putting the physical damage potential aside, I doubt you will get better speaker, or driver performance with an inappropriate SAM profile. If you want to try it for fun, have at it. But do be careful with the volume.
Damon
Powernode, NAD M32, Cambridge CD transport, Analysis Plus, Nordost, iFi Nova, CSS Criton 1TDX, KEF C62
Vancouver, Canada
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#3
(29-Sep-2016, 02:35)Damon Wrote: Hi Sam,

I think that most responses you get will tell you that this is not a good idea. Though the drivers are similar, they are not the same, and the crossover design is different as is the cabinet and other design parameters. So, there is the potential for speaker damage. Personally, I used a SAM profile for a newer ProAc Tablette on my old Tablettes. It does make a difference, but ultimately I removed it; I never used SAM at 100% in any event. So, I've done it, but I don't think there is a truthful benefit to doing so.

Putting the physical damage potential aside, I doubt you will be better speaker, or driver performance with an inappropriate SAM profile. If you want to try it for fun, have at it. But do be careful with the volume.

+1
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#4
(29-Sep-2016, 01:35)sam1000 Wrote: Hi:
I own Pioneer S1-EX  speakers which are not SAMed.  This speaker uses either the same or similar drivers as TAD Evolution-1. Since E-1 was released later, there could be more refinements to the drivers. What kind of risks would I be taking by enabling SAM in my setup for E-1? 

Here're the specs for these 2 speakers
E-1 : http://www.stereophile.com/content/tad-e...whgY2ll.97
S1-EX : http://www.stereophile.com/content/pione...HbDKv6h.97

Hi Sam

I think Damon covered it well. If you look at Fig. 1 in measurements of both Stereophile links you have provided you'll see that the impedance trace of the bass region of the two speakers is very different (bass reflex tuning is different). This is the area where Devialet SAM is working and impedance data is one of three parameters the SAM logic uses to determine correction and protection for your speaker. So from a technical point of view this will not work well. It is not dangerous to try as long as you follow Damon's advice on volume.
My speakers are not SAMed either but I get decent results with a profile for the Atohm GT-1 as the uncorrected frequency response and impedance trace of the GT-1 and my speakers is quite similar.
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#5
It doesn't seem very worthwhile to be honest. If it's not an exact match to the measured speaker then it's not doing what's intended. I guess there's always a chance you might like the result, but you might get better results using EQ or Room correction?

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#6
Calling the E1 a rebranded S1-EX is way off the mark IMHO. They are different speakers. The SAM profile for the E1 has not been measured for the S1-EX so its no different than trying any of the other profiles for other speakers that don't match.

At low listening levels might be fun to try different profiles, but i wouldn't turn it up too much as you might push your speakers boundaries and damage them with the wrong profile.
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#7
Yep. Agree with all of you. The speakers sound fantastic without SAM. But I was curious what SAM could do with them. Since there are only 20 odd votes for these speakers for SAM, I don't think they will ever be SAMed. However, I don't think its worth trying to use another speakers SAM profile to see what SAM does. As you guys have said, it would be inaccurate.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Oppo-203 / SonicTransporter i7 Roon Core ->Trinnov Altitute-16->TAD M2500MK-1 -> TAD CR-1
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#8
(30-Sep-2016, 06:25)sam1000 Wrote: Yep. Agree with all of you. The speakers sound fantastic without SAM. But I was curious what SAM could do with them.  Since there are only 20 odd votes for these speakers for SAM, I don't think they will ever be SAMed. However, I don't think its worth trying to use another speakers SAM profile to see what SAM does. As you guys have said, it would be inaccurate.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I wouldn't worry about the SAM voting system. My speakers were SAMed way before they reached the required number of votes.
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#9
(30-Sep-2016, 11:48)Axel Wrote:
(30-Sep-2016, 06:25)sam1000 Wrote: Yep. Agree with all of you. The speakers sound fantastic without SAM. But I was curious what SAM could do with them.  Since there are only 20 odd votes for these speakers for SAM, I don't think they will ever be SAMed. However, I don't think its worth trying to use another speakers SAM profile to see what SAM does. As you guys have said, it would be inaccurate.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I wouldn't worry about the SAM voting system. My speakers were SAMed way before they reached the required number of votes.

Plus, don't forget SAM lab, which does appear to be back on tour now.
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - iFi Zen Stream - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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