Teething troubles with 120

[sjw98]

Hi all

I've now got my 120 working nicely with my melco n1, and I'm currently playing around with my Atohm GT1s and my Wilson Benesch Discoverys. 

However....! 

I've noticed that in my opinion voices seem a bit distant and muffled. Tonight I was listening to some Dire Straits, and his voice just wasn't really present. Slightly far away and as if he's singing behind a curtain or something. 

This is with both speakers! And with SAM off or on! The instruments are beautiful and extremely crisp and clear but voices just sound wrong. I've listened using Spotify through my Chromecast audio into line in (just as an experiment) and it sounds the same. 

As a last test I just listened to the track via some good headphones on my iPhone as, as I thought, it actually sounded clearer and more present. 

Having been a big Naim owner over the years I'm very used to forward presentation and was expecting something similar with the devialet but I'm concerned I've got something set up wrongly. 

Any suggestions would be appreciated as I'm not enjoying it as much as I'd hoped...!

Thanks. 
Steve

[Axel]

Hi all

I've now got my 120 working nicely with my melco n1, and I'm currently playing around with my Atohm GT1s and my Wilson Benesch Discoverys. 

However....! 

I've noticed that in my opinion voices seem a bit distant and muffled. Tonight I was listening to some Dire Straits, and his voice just wasn't really present. Slightly far away and as if he's singing behind a curtain or something. 

This is with both speakers! And with SAM off or on! The instruments are beautiful and extremely crisp and clear but voices just sound wrong. I've listened using Spotify through my Chromecast audio into line in (just as an experiment) and it sounds the same. 

As a last test I just listened to the track via some good headphones on my iPhone as, as I thought, it actually sounded clearer and more present. 

Having been a big Naim owner over the years I'm very used to forward presentation and was expecting something similar with the devialet but I'm concerned I've got something set up wrongly. 

Any suggestions would be appreciated as I'm not enjoying it as much as I'd hoped...!

Thanks. 
Steve

This sounds to me like you might have one speaker connected out of phase, characterised by weak vocals coming in from both sides of the soundstage rather than the center and weak bass. Have you checked your connections at the amp and speaker ends?

[Damon]

Hi sjw98,

It is a curious sound you describe. I too came from Naim, and the clarity of the midrange, the presence of a distinct midrange, is better with the Devialet. I think that there is a bit of 'darkness' in the Naim presentation that can make some types of vocals seem more present, or richer. But expression, diction, breathing, etc, come through the Devialet in a way that the Naim never matched. In fact, it was the midrange that first sold me on Devialet.

I was also listening to Dire Straits just yesterday; just curious that you mention them as a difficult source. I don't know if cables, or some other element of your system is playing into this situation, but possibly there is a mis-match somewhere.

I could understand if you felt there was less 'oomph' or bassy-richness to vocals, but having a vocal/ midrange that seems cloudy or veiled seems really odd to me. Be curious to hear what you find, or what you think after more listening.

[yabaVR]

sjw98,

there is one thing I experienced with every Devialet system I set up or even when tuning a system to the better.
Premised the Devialet is more precise/advanced than the former amp there is a characteristic in presenting the musical "objects" on the stage.

The Devialet is more precise in respect to "time phase". In perfect this means every frequency of a recorded tone is processed in a way that it reaches your ear in the same timeline it was recorded.

Think of it as a airbrush gun. The paint being the tone. If you adjust the gun to produce a sharp spot all frequencies (of that tone) are "time aligned". If you get a "dimished to the outer ring paint spot" the frequencies are straggling all over the place giving a broader image that might appear as if there is more information there...but it is not. It is just blurred.
For some it might also appear as some musical object are louder because frequencies of different origin are resonating (therefore appear to be louder).
It's a funny thing and a very personal perception.

The other way (sharp spot) the frequencies of a tone pull/stay together and therefore it seems as every instrument/voice gets thinner/smaller...but it is not. It just gets on spot. It's focused. 
You get more 3D body of instruments/voices/positioning in the aural image. There is more "blackness", depth, airiness  (in respect voices often seem to come more from the distance).

Once you are used to the genuine sound of the Devialet there is no way back    ...it really is closer to the origin (and you will find different recordings are more distinct than before).

Hope this wasn't too confusing  

gui

[iamwappie]

How long was the break in period? I've owned a 120 and now a 220 and both needed at least 150 hours of breakin. Especially for the voices. Also you may have to reposition your speakers when changing amplifiers. Often only changing toe in

[sjw98]

Thanks everyone. Given I've swapped speakers, and tried a couple of sources (using the internal DAC or line in) I'm convinced that this is something integral to the amp, correct or not.

It is odd enough, and I've noticed it clearly enough to think that something isn't quite right. I take on board what you're saying about devialet having a different "sound" to Naim, but I've noticed it on a couple of tracks and it just doesn't sound "right" if you know what I mean. When I first started using it I was listening to some Kate Rusby in the background and I suddenly realised I couldn't actually here what she was singing.

I'm interested in the phase issue and whether there is a setting somewhere that I could have accidentally flipped to bugger up the phasing? The speaker cables are definitely correctly connected.

Thanks in advance!

[baddog]

So our systems are different and I am sure the rooms, setup and ears are different too.

I have D400s. G3s for speakers. I sit about nine feet from speakers. They are around eight feet apart.

Room is around 14' wide by 23' deep by 9' high. Opening in another room in back.

I have both high resolution and/or DSD versions of most of the Dire Straits albums and several of Mark K's solo efforts.

I would describe his voice as deep and resonant. No feeling of being veiled or in the distant background.

Do you find this effect with other artists as well? Ok, I see you have mentioned that is the case.

I have previously had tube amps, tube preamps, MSB Analog DAC, with Devore O/96 speakers, and similar sound characteristics to his voice.

This is from playing back music stored on a NAS, currently on AIR 3 via either Windows or Mac. But this was also true when I had a Mac Mini connected via USB into the D400.

I know that doesn't solve your problem. Just a data point.

I might try reversing one of the speaker cables anyway, just to hear how the sound changes.

All the tone controls on the Devialet in the default position?

Odd instruments would sound fine, but an issue with voices. Hmmm...

[Pim]

Thanks everyone. Given I've swapped speakers, and tried a couple of sources (using the internal DAC or line in) I'm convinced that this is something integral to the amp, correct or not.

It is odd enough, and I've noticed it clearly enough to think that something isn't quite right. I take on board what you're saying about devialet having a different "sound" to Naim, but I've noticed it on a couple of tracks and it just doesn't sound "right" if you know what I mean. When I first started using it I was listening to some Kate Rusby in the background and I suddenly realised I couldn't actually here what she was singing.

I'm interested in the phase issue and whether there is a setting somewhere that I could have accidentally flipped to bugger up the phasing? The speaker cables are definitely correctly connected.

Thanks in advance!

Devialet does have an invert phase function. Check your configurator. There should be a button on the remote control set to do this though.

[yabaVR]

...Odd instruments would sound fine, but an issue with voices. Hmmm...

That's the point. The devialet does not distinguish between voices and instruments...it's just a dumb amp   (no, no... not you my lovely D   )

I can only imagine:

- something out of phase, for sure not inside the Devialet, but you can check that they put in the binding post the right way. Looking from behind, left to right, it has to be (+) (-) (+) (-)
- if you got two different speakers it's very unlikely they are both fabricated out of phase inside
- speaker cables can be marked the wrong way (+) (-), but again if you used the same cable with the other amp and had no issues 
- if you didn't touch anything in the configurator there is nothing changing the phase and if you did, you can only change the absolute phase (180°) for both channels at the same time (but I bet you won't here any difference of that kind)


- to my interpretation, if the effect is that big as you discribe, it has to be a significant reduction in the frequency area of human voices. If you are certain on this I would meassure the effect. Get yourself a db-meter and a sweeping sine tone on CD and test if there is a significant reduction at any frequency at the position of your listening chair.

- to be sure it's not your D120 you have to get another Dxxx to compare it to. Any model would be sufficient. Perhaps the best and easiest way to figure out what's wrong?

Any other way it's difficult for us to discover what's going on if we can not hear it ourselfs...

gui

[sjw98]

Thanks Gui. I think I will get another 120, and possibly a 200 to test side by side. I might even throw in a Naim Superuniti as a comparison (I'm more used to Naim sound) so it could just be Devialet sound and it may not quite sit that well with me.

I've now played around with phasing etc and I'm sure everything is connected fine.

Very odd. But may just be me!!!