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Down sample DSD128 to DSD64 or convert to PCM 24/192?
#1
Hi,

I have bought some DSD128 files, but have forgotten that Devialet DoP only support DSD64. I am looking for suggestion on whether I should down-sample the DSD128 file to DSD64, or I should convert the DSD128 file to PCM 24/192, which approach should give me better sound on the Devialet USB input?

Also, anyone has suggestion on free s/w for Mac platform to do the conversion? I understand XLD can convert DSD to PCM, any other free s/w available on Mac for similar purpose?

Thanks,
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#2
Sonore DSD2FLAC

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=129912.0

Converts DSD to FLAC or  FLAC with DoP Encoding
*This application is provided as-is without warranty. 
*Development for this application is closed.
*Please provide support to others via this forum.   

FEATURES
Supports DSD input files in .dsf and .dff formats
Supports DSD64 and DSD128 input rates
Selectable ouput sample rates: 88.2KHz (default), 176.4KHz or 352.8KHz
Selectable bit depth: 16, 20, 24 (default)
Volume scale: -6db to +6db (+4 db default)
Dither: on (default) or off
Optional output mode in DoPFLAC for use by a player that supports FLAC and a DAC that supports DoP input
Transfers stored metadata from the orginal DSD file to the resulting FLAC file
Single title conversion or entire album conversion in a given folder

For the download, go here:

http://www.sonore.us/dsd2flac.html
Roon ROCK on Intel NUC6i5SYH/Ethernet | VPI Avenger | Devialet 440 Pro CI | Vivid Audio Giya G3 | Auralic Aires Mini | Synology 1812+ NAS
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#3
Hi Lonely,

I have just solved a very similar problem to yours. I have a few hi res files – PCM 24/96 and 24/192 and a growing number of DSD64 files of various music genres. Why growing - because I hear a distinct ‘improvement’ to my ears with DSD. 
Now I have two DSD128 files that I cannot listen to as my equipment stops at DSD64. I was prepared to settle for any conversion to high res - 24/96 or above.
Searching the net I came across a suggestion this week on the Naim forum to use TASCAM Hi-Res Editor. It is available on PC (Win 7 to Win 8.1) and Mac. I have Win 10 but downloaded the Win 8.1 version 1.0.3 anyway. It loaded very easily.
 
As the sales talk on Editor only claims conversion of DSD > PCM and PCM>DSD I assumed that down converting DSD128 to DSD64 was not on so I converted my two files from DSD128 to PCM 24/192. I was happy that it worked and happy with the sound quality.

THEN I decided to Read the Manual! One chart seemed to suggest that exporting DSD files can be output to a different sampling rate than the original rate - both up and down! I leapt at the chance of converting my DSD128 files to DSD64 and it worked first time! It seemed to take twice as long as converting DSD to PCM 24/192 so I was suspicious of an intermediate conversion via PCM.

Listening tests show that the PCM 24/192 tracks are very clear (in a sort of digital via transistor way). The DSD64 tracks sound more musical (though a fraction less clear) - like a good valve/tube amplifier. I very much prefer the DSD but can live with the 24/192.
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#4
Hi Fuzzeer,

Thanks for the info.

I have bought HQPlayer, and use it to re-sample the DSD128 to PCM24/192, or to DSD64 on the fly. Have tried both, and it works very well on my i5 Intel NUC. I also found the DSD re-sample sounds a bit 'soft' relative to the PCM one.
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#5
Listening to a Double DSD file is an experience in itself. When you are listening to a 24/192 PCM file the whole presentation is two-dimensional .There is not much sense of depth, everything is just left-right-center. On a good 24/192 file you might be able to pick up subtle cues about the recording venue. This has happened to me on rare occasions once while listening to a particularly good recording (Tea for the tillerman- HDtracks 24/192). Every since I started listening to DSD files it became apparent that DSD has the capacity to project a holographic sense of musical presentation. Its like everything moves forward into the listening environment. The vocals and the instruments just hang in the air rather than being stuff on the wall behind the speakers. Its a more intimate and personal experience, just like a live performance. Sadly people who own a Devialet would never get to experience Double DSD, not even if they buy a really expensive external DAC. This is the greatest limitation of the Devialet Expert platform. Oh well you can always invest in proper pre/power/dac combo and get all the benefits but I believe that the allure of having a single shinny box is far too much for some to go that route. I sympathies with people who are looking towards Double DSD or Quad DSD, but just have to contend with the horrible 24/96 or lower PCM format. As an advice I would suggest you not to downsample the Double DSD if wont provide you with much benefits. Just stick to 64 DSD or 24/192 that should serve as an appetizer till you are ready to ditch the single box and more to a proper hi-fi. Apologies in advance of any hurt feelings.
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#6
I recall that at the Oxford Audio 1000 Pro launch event last year, Devialet's Mattieu Pernot advised that the DSD MAT algorithm / ADH was is actually capable of running DSD128. He advised that it is possible that this may be implemented in a future firmware upgrade, but he offered no timeline for this. Probably very wise as Devialet are not the best at keeping to timelines.

An interesting post from Devialetuser above. However, I think it worth mentioning that opinions may differ on this one. For me, the quality of the original recording and mastering make an order of magnitude of difference in comparison to the actual file format used. Would a good recording on 24/96 sound horrible whereas a mediocre one on 24/192 would sound good? No. In fact if you look at the science behind this, there is zero reason why 24/96 should sound audibly different to 24/192. In absolute terms, 24/96 is very high resolution indeed. This is the kind of stuff that folk get into unending debates and arguments with on forums like this. I would urge anyone interested to do a bit of their own research, there is lots of interesting stuff out there. Here is something to start with....

https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

That said, I was listening to some DSD64 material recently where the sound staging was absolutely mesmerising. There does seam to be something about DSD that allows it to excel in this regard. On this Devialetuser and myself can agree I think.
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - iFi Zen Stream - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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#7
(20-Feb-2017, 13:21)Devialetuser Wrote: Listening to a Double DSD file is an experience in itself. When you are listening to a 24/192 PCM file the whole presentation is two-dimensional .There is not much sense of depth, everything is just left-right-center. On a good 24/192 file you might be able to pick up subtle cues about the recording venue. This has happened to me on rare occasions once while listening to a particularly good recording (Tea for the tillerman- HDtracks 24/192). Every since I started listening to DSD files it became apparent that DSD has the capacity to project a holographic sense of musical presentation. Its like everything moves forward into the listening environment. The vocals and the instruments just hang in the air rather than being stuff on the wall behind the speakers. Its a more intimate and personal experience, just like a live performance. Sadly people who own a Devialet would never get to experience Double DSD, not even if they buy a really expensive external DAC. This is the greatest limitation of the Devialet Expert platform. Oh well you can always invest in proper pre/power/dac combo and get all the benefits but I believe that the allure of having a single shinny box is far too much for some to go that route. I sympathies with people who are looking towards Double DSD or Quad DSD, but just have to contend with the horrible 24/96 or lower PCM format. As an advice I would suggest you not to downsample the Double DSD if wont provide you with much benefits. Just stick to 64 DSD or 24/192 that should serve as an appetizer till you are ready to ditch the single box and more to a proper hi-fi. Apologies in advance of any hurt feelings.

I couldn't DISagree more, though I'm not saying PCM is better than DSD or vice versa. Above all it's the recording (or production) that determines the presentation, there's great stuff available in all bit-/sample rates and formats. If everything not DSD in your system sounds 2 dimensional etc. I'd check your source/system/room.
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The Netherlands
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#8
(20-Feb-2017, 14:27)Confused Wrote: That said, I was listening to some DSD64 material recently where the sound staging was absolutely mesmerising.  There does seam to be something about DSD that allows it to excel in this regard.  On this Devialetuser and myself can agree I think.

I can also confirm that sound staging is fantastic with DSD64. But... the sound is also a bit soft, gentle and boring (compared with 24/192) which I don't like so much. I listen quite much rock and metal music and there is definitely something wrong with the system if that music sounds overly warm, romantic or soft. I kind of prefer 24/192 therefore.
Bluesound Node > Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 > Genelec 8351B & 7360A
Devialet 1000 Pro
Bluesound Node 2i > Genelec 8330
Tampere, Finland
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#9
Absolutely I agree with @Confused the quality and mastering of the music is of utmost importance. But I feel as DSD is having to fight an uphill battle, the mastering engineers (not all) are producing some very fine recordings. I downloaded the 64DSD version of the pink panther album from NativeDSD and it was just mesmerising. I am sure we have all experienced a moment while listening to music with either a tear in our eye or a smile on the face. Well it is in those moments that one realises it was all worth it.

I am not a mastering engineer but I think a well mastered album will excel and move you regardless if it's PCM or DSD. A badly mastered DSD will definitely make you ask why you just wasted £25-£30 pounds.
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#10
Here's an example of an album recorded in DSD64 and which sounds absolutely amazing. Soundstaging absolutely mesmerising as Confused says.

https://channelclassics.nativedsd.com/al...olin-vol-1

I don't have a lot of DSD material but it seems that when the performance was recorded in DSD it's pretty damn special.

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

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