Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
German Analog-Forum.de comparison of D250 Pro and D400 versus some other brands
#11
(30-Nov-2016, 21:56)Vivialet Wrote: no doubt that the big tubes (NAT Transmitter) were sounding magical with the given music (piano/violin, small choir, vocal/guitar). We have not directly compared the 250pro to these tubes, only the 400. But we compared the 400 to the 250pro which is better in most aspects. So I think a 1000pro is very close to the tubes, maybe a little less magical but more correct and more dynamic. And still much cheaper.
Conclusion for me was that I have exacly the optimal amp for me. But I can also understand people who love the tubes.
What I cannot understand is the Devialet bashing of some people. For me they only show that they have no clue about correct music reproduction.
My reference point for transparency and details is my headphone system (HD800/HDVD800/Mutec MC-3 USB) and the Devialet is the only amp I have heard that comes close in these aspects.

By the way, and I kid you not, a few years ago I heard that Devialet were considering making an ADH amplifier using tubes. I heard this from Devialet themselves. This was of course long before the days of Phantom and even before this forum was launched.

I imagine that over the years they have considered many other crazy ideas!

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

O d'A no.63, Absolare Integrated Signature, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-six, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Transparent Ref XL digital cables, Transparent XL Gen 5 speaker cables, Ansuz Diamond Darkz, Shunyata mains cable prototypes, Shunyata Denali D6000/S, Shunyata Venom RCA, Audioquest Diamond Ethernet, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Paul Pang Audiophile switch w/ MCRU LPS,  sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD & MCRU LPS
UK
Reply
#12
(30-Nov-2016, 21:56)Vivialet Wrote: What I cannot understand is the Devialet bashing of some people. For me they only show that they have no clue about correct music reproduction.

To be honest, I don't think Devialet help themselves much there, and I don't mean in the products themselves.
It's just if you want 'serious' hifi people to like something it seems obvious from the industry in general that you dont use incessant 'lifestyle' marketing and PR. Clearly Devialet aren't too bothered and would probably rather have a lifestyle crowd - more disposable income.

I suppose putting it in a cool looking (and relatively small) box will always upset some people too (but attract others like myself). Most of us judge things with our eyes and bring all our preconceptions with us, it's just how we're designed...

Looking forward to reading the article when I've got time for a google translate session. Great that a DC member was actually there. Tell us more Vivialet!

Roon lifetime > Mac mini > ethernet > µRendu | Paul Hynes SR3 > Intona > Curious USB link > Devialet 250 Pro > PMC fact.8
- London, UK -

Reply
#13
Thanks for sharing Vivialet. The review was picked up on some other forums too, but in those threads is never stated that the Devialets were compared with front and back-ends costing three to five times as much. Glad you cleared that one up for me Vivialet. Sets things in perspective.
Devialet 400 - Linn Akurate DS/1 - Audio Physic Virgo 25 Plus - MIT Matrix 28s - AudioQuest Diamond - Crystal Cable Reference Digital - Shunyata Research ΞTRON Alpha Digital and ΞTRON Z PC-10 powercords - Qobuz Sublime
Reply
#14
(30-Nov-2016, 21:03)Vivialet Wrote: I was attending this workshop, it was my 250pro, the 400 belongs to a friend. A 3rd Devialet 400 owner was also present. All Devialet owners liked the Devialets very much, they had a much blacker background and also better details than any other amp. The 250pro was compared to a 30k€ frontend of DAC and preamp and NAT tubes costing about 8000€. In the end a unfair comparison, but for my ears the 250pro was better on a Wilson Benesch Discovery and much better on a horn speaker. In the other room the 400 has to fight against a 40k€ system which was sounding better in terms of nicer but not in terms of correctness. The music played was very tube friendly. When playing Yello it was obvious that the tubes have limits. I guess most of the audience were tube fans that simply heard what they wantet to hear (my impression). And some points of criticism were simply wrong, the Devialet 400 was the only amp reproducing sibilants of a choir correctly. Not better sounding but correctly.
There are always some people who think they know how music should sound, but sometimes they are simply wrong. They think if an amp sounds nice and forgiving it is the better amp. My choice would still be the 1000pro that I have, I would even prefer a single 250pro to the tubes. Maybe the tubes shine with some very special music, but as it gets more complex and louder and bass heavier tubes have no chance against a powerful solid state amp.
Not speaking about the heat and extreme power consumption...
For some people the Devialet is like a red rag, and most people still think the Devialet is a Class-D amp. And a Class-D amp is bad...

+1
Linn LP12 - Melco  N1A - Devialet 200 - Kef LS50 - DSpeaker Antimode 8033s-II - Linn Melodik Subwoofer

Bavaria
Reply
#15
(30-Nov-2016, 21:51)GuillaumeB Wrote:
(30-Nov-2016, 21:04)f1eng Wrote: I consider the Devialet the least coloured amp I have heard and that is why I bought my first.
I have other coloured amps here Smile but I don't use them much any more.

That's interesting. Like you I have other amplifiers.

At the moment I find myself listening more to the Absolare/Totaldac combo. It just seems more enjoyable to me at this moment.

I love my O d'A too. It's probably slightly more transparent but at times I feel as though it is missing something. Difficult to put my finger on this. 

I've also heard a few tube amps with highly sensitive speakers, pretty much the complete antithesis of the Devialet approach, and I've really enjoyed these too. Yes distortion (if that's what it is) can sound really nice and I totally get why so many of you enjoy vinyl on your Devialets (I don't have a record player).

I find this hi-fi thing a real journey and I am loathe to say one thing is better than another; they are different.

But I understand your argument about transparency as the definition of hi-fi. In my mind emotions are more important though.



Guillaume

I was just being pedantic really, Guillaume. HiFi is a shortening of high fidelity, and it seems over the last 15 to 20 years fidelity within the equipment is less valued by a lot of enthusiasts than some euphonic additions.
Of course the timbre of a musical instrument is set by the combination of overtones, or harmonics, so it is entirely to be expected that harmonic distortion will change the timbre of an instrument, and that some may prefer this to the sound recorded, and of course the recorded sound is massively influenced by microphone choice and positioning, and the final sound by the mix. I have a Metric Halo recorder and I can use it to mix and add plugins. Pretty well any transfer function that the processor can compute in real time can be used in the mix. It is fun, but I always end up back with no processing (I also only use a stereo dummy head, no spot mics ear searingly close to instruments, so I already have plenty of ambience on recordings, no need to add any!

cheers,

Frank
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Meridian Control 15, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).

Reply
#16
FYI more on this "workshop".

http://www.aktives-hoeren.de/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=8052
http://www.westdrift-forum.de/t427f26-Sh...-am-3.html
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital/Lessloss DFPC Signature/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, Roon, Sonore microRendu/SoTM sMS-200, Curious USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands


Reply
#17
(30-Nov-2016, 21:24)f1eng Wrote:
(30-Nov-2016, 21:03)Vivialet Wrote: For some people the Devialet is like a red rag, and most people still think the Devialet is a Class-D amp. And a Class-D amp is bad...

It is daft but true.
Actually the n-core amps are superb too, much less coloured than any SET amp could be.

I have a good friend who is a simple valve amp fan. I took my D_Premier over to his place and it was much clearer and detailed but he didn't like it he said it was sterile whereas his was definitely veiled.

Funny, that you are mentioning n-core. Last weekend I did some extensive comparisons switching back and forward from a Devialet 200 to two Monoblocks NC400 that a friend of mine recently built. I was surprised how good they were. Altough the Monoblocks are a lot cheaper, they had more detail in the middle and were very dynamic and neutral. Their pure class D sound was far better than what I expected. At the end, I think I preferred the two NC400 over the Devialet. Important is also to note that I run a Antimode room correction. Room correction is  by far the biggest improvement I had during the last year.

How would you compare the NC400 to Devialet?
Reply
#18
(02-Dec-2016, 13:43)runlonger Wrote:
(30-Nov-2016, 21:24)f1eng Wrote:
(30-Nov-2016, 21:03)Vivialet Wrote: For some people the Devialet is like a red rag, and most people still think the Devialet is a Class-D amp. And a Class-D amp is bad...

It is daft but true.
Actually the n-core amps are superb too, much less coloured than any SET amp could be.

I have a good friend who is a simple valve amp fan. I took my D_Premier over to his place and it was much clearer and detailed but he didn't like it he said it was sterile whereas his was definitely veiled.

Funny, that you are mentioning n-core. Last weekend I did some extensive comparisons switching back and forward from a Devialet 200 to two Monoblocks NC400 that a friend of mine recently built. I was surprised how good they were. Altough the Monoblocks are a lot cheaper, they had more detail in the middle and were very dynamic and neutral. Their pure class D sound was far better than what I expected. At the end, I think I preferred the two NC400 over the Devialet. Important is also to note that I run a Antimode room correction. Room correction is  by far the biggest improvement I had during the last year.

How would you compare the NC400 to Devialet?

I have never done a back-to-back comparison between n-Core and Devialet and have never heard a Devialet 200 at length.
I have a friend with n-Cores and his system sounds great, but different speakers and room. He uses Helmholz resonator bass absorption too.
I think they are stupendous value and hear that their designer believes it is not necessary to go to the same lengths Devialet have to get good sound. I consider the Devialet uncoloured and unexaggerated, personally. Of course the n-Cores need a preamp and DAC to be as complete as the Devialet so I don't know how big a saving they are as a system, or how domestically acceptable they look.

I have an Antimode too but prefer my system without. My room is not bad already, and whilst the Antimode improves the bass evenness slightly where the microphone is put, it is worse elsewhere in the room. The most satisfactory electronic bass management I have heard had 4 bass boxes, so evenness could be improved over most of the room.
I may go the Helmholz resonator route myself since that seems by far the most technically elegant solution.
Devialet Original d'Atelier 44, Goldmund Reference/T3f /Ortofon A90, Goldmund Mimesis 36+ & Chord Blu, iMac/Air, Meridian Control 15, Lynx Theta, Tune Audio Anima, Goldmund Epilog 1&2, REL Studio. Dialog, Silver Phantoms, Branch stands, copper cables (mainly).

Reply
#19
(02-Dec-2016, 16:53)f1eng Wrote:
(02-Dec-2016, 13:43)runlonger Wrote:
(30-Nov-2016, 21:24)f1eng Wrote: It is daft but true.
Actually the n-core amps are superb too, much less coloured than any SET amp could be.

I have a good friend who is a simple valve amp fan. I took my D_Premier over to his place and it was much clearer and detailed but he didn't like it he said it was sterile whereas his was definitely veiled.

Funny, that you are mentioning n-core. Last weekend I did some extensive comparisons switching back and forward from a Devialet 200 to two Monoblocks NC400 that a friend of mine recently built. I was surprised how good they were. Altough the Monoblocks are a lot cheaper, they had more detail in the middle and were very dynamic and neutral. Their pure class D sound was far better than what I expected. At the end, I think I preferred the two NC400 over the Devialet. Important is also to note that I run a Antimode room correction. Room correction is  by far the biggest improvement I had during the last year.

How would you compare the NC400 to Devialet?

I have never done a back-to-back comparison between n-Core and Devialet and have never heard a Devialet 200 at length.
I have a friend with n-Cores and his system sounds great, but different speakers and room. He uses Helmholz resonator bass absorption too.
I think they are stupendous value and hear that their designer believes it is not necessary to go to the same lengths Devialet have to get good sound. I consider the Devialet uncoloured and unexaggerated, personally. Of course the n-Cores need a preamp and DAC to be as complete as the Devialet so I don't know how big a saving they are as a system, or how domestically acceptable they look.

I have an Antimode too but prefer my system without. My room is not bad already, and whilst the Antimode improves the bass evenness slightly where the microphone is put, it is worse elsewhere in the room. The most satisfactory electronic bass management I have heard had 4 bass boxes, so evenness could be improved over most of the room.
I may go the Helmholz resonator route myself since that seems by far the most technically elegant solution.

I have one room mode at 45hz, that is flatened perfectly by the antimode and in my case the acoustics are also fine elsewhere in the room. A big improvement. The antimode can also be used as a preamp and if you have to use the antimode with a devialet anyways, then the n-cores are much cheaper. They also consume exactly as much power as a devialet. I'm a total fan of the devialet sound and the nc400's were really, really good. Simillar to the Devialet, overall even a little bit better. Devialet uses ADH, I do not know what Hypex uses to make their Class D sound so good, but obviously after hearing the two amps ADH is not the only way.

Where are you planing to use those Helmholz resonators and how big are they?
Reply
#20
Guys, please keep it on topic.
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital/Lessloss DFPC Signature/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, Roon, Sonore microRendu/SoTM sMS-200, Curious USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands


Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)