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German Analog-Forum.de comparison of D250 Pro and D400 versus some other brands
#21
(30-Nov-2016, 20:33)yabaVR Wrote: I would say there were no Devialet Expert experts present at the comparison. One guy discribed the Devialet sounded like pumping the sound objects to the front every time a loud sound was performed in the music.
The first thing they should have done (nobody knows if they did) cut off DPM and Standby-Modus, and all not used Inputs and give the D just 2h of 'warmup' to make it perform better espacially on transients.

It's sad, but I think the D's belong to the most underestimated amps on the market due to not being engaged the right way. I really think the D's are a 'Diva' if not treated right it gets p... off and won't perform like it could.
Or are we rather deaf here at Devialetchat?  Dodgy

gui

What can I expect by turning off DPM and standby-modus? This I haven't tried. Sorry for my ignorance.
Gallo Ref. 3.1 with 15 ohm 5 watt resistors across the sub in terminals./ Hyperions 968 / Devialet 250 Pro / Marantz SA11 s2 / Nordost Red Dawn loudspeaker cable / Nordost Blue Heaven USB 2 data cable / Harmonic Tech Digital cable (Cyber link Silver) / And Jrivers for media streaming / Dell 8900 special edition with 250GB SSD, 2TB hard drive with 24GB memory.             
Less is more
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#22
(03-Dec-2016, 06:46)woodstock Wrote:
(30-Nov-2016, 20:33)yabaVR Wrote: I would say there were no Devialet Expert experts present at the comparison. One guy discribed the Devialet sounded like pumping the sound objects to the front every time a loud sound was performed in the music.
The first thing they should have done (nobody knows if they did) cut off DPM and Standby-Modus, and all not used Inputs and give the D just 2h of 'warmup' to make it perform better espacially on transients.

It's sad, but I think the D's belong to the most underestimated amps on the market due to not being engaged the right way. I really think the D's are a 'Diva' if not treated right it gets p... off and won't perform like it could.
Or are we rather deaf here at Devialetchat?  Dodgy

gui

What can I expect by turning off DPM and standby-modus? This I haven't tried. Sorry for my ignorance.

To keep off topic short...you get improved sound in terms of timing, precision, less jitter etc.

gui
- D200 (mod) - ML Motion40 (mod) - Manger P1 (mod) - foobar 1.3.14/AO 2.20 b4/jplay 6.2/process lasso 9.0b/fidelizer 7.6 Pro/ssd/laptop(mod)/usb-D200 - 
"Oh, you can buy the other. But then it is a cost intensive learning process"
berlin
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#23
(03-Dec-2016, 06:46)woodstock Wrote:
(30-Nov-2016, 20:33)yabaVR Wrote: I would say there were no Devialet Expert experts present at the comparison. One guy discribed the Devialet sounded like pumping the sound objects to the front every time a loud sound was performed in the music.
The first thing they should have done (nobody knows if they did) cut off DPM and Standby-Modus, and all not used Inputs and give the D just 2h of 'warmup' to make it perform better espacially on transients.

It's sad, but I think the D's belong to the most underestimated amps on the market due to not being engaged the right way. I really think the D's are a 'Diva' if not treated right it gets p... off and won't perform like it could.
Or are we rather deaf here at Devialetchat?  Dodgy

gui

What can I expect by turning off DPM and standby-modus? This I haven't tried. Sorry for my ignorance.

The warmer my Devialet is, the warmer and smoother it sounds.
The standby-modus off keeps it always on temperature, so it's warm whenever I start playing music.
It doesn't cost that much extra on a yearly basis.
Got DPM turned of as well.
Devialet 200 (FW 7.1.3) / Magnepan 1.7i / Rel T5 / Foobar (WASAPI event 24bit) / AIR 3.0.1b (Ethernet)
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#24
(30-Nov-2016, 20:33)yabaVR Wrote: I would say there were no Devialet Expert experts present at the comparison. One guy discribed the Devialet sounded like pumping the sound objects to the front every time a loud sound was performed in the music.
The first thing they should have done (nobody knows if they did) cut off DPM and Standby-Modus, and all not used Inputs and give the D just 2h of 'warmup' to make it perform better espacially on transients.

It's sad, but I think the D's belong to the most underestimated amps on the market due to not being engaged the right way. I really think the D's are a 'Diva' if not treated right it gets p... off and won't perform like it could.
Or are we rather deaf here at Devialetchat?  Dodgy

gui


Not sure if you need to be an expert for this but the amps had enough time for a warmup (about 3h for the 250, the 400 was connected since the day before). Only 2 digital inputs were activated. But: DPM was activated. We both had created a new config and forgot to switch it off. But honestly, the difference here is extremely small and it does definitly not cause any room pumping. I think this is simply a misinterpretation of the black background that Devialets are capable of. All analogue amps (especially tubes) have a continous noise that the Devialet does not have. If you are not used to it you may think that this is a fault of the Devialet.
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#25
(03-Dec-2016, 10:20)Vivialet Wrote:
(30-Nov-2016, 20:33)yabaVR Wrote: I would say there were no Devialet Expert experts present at the comparison. One guy discribed the Devialet sounded like pumping the sound objects to the front every time a loud sound was performed in the music.
The first thing they should have done (nobody knows if they did) cut off DPM and Standby-Modus, and all not used Inputs and give the D just 2h of 'warmup' to make it perform better espacially on transients.

It's sad, but I think the D's belong to the most underestimated amps on the market due to not being engaged the right way. I really think the D's are a 'Diva' if not treated right it gets p... off and won't perform like it could.
Or are we rather deaf here at Devialetchat?  Dodgy

gui


Not sure if you need to be an expert for this but the amps had enough time for a warmup (about 3h for the 250, the 400 was connected since the day before). Only 2 digital inputs were activated. But: DPM was activated. We both had created a new config and forgot to switch it off. But honestly, the difference here is extremely small and it does definitly not cause any room pumping. I think this is simply a misinterpretation of the black background that Devialets are capable of. All analogue amps (especially tubes) have a continous noise that the Devialet does not have. If you are not used to it you may think that this is a fault of the Devialet.

Hi Vivialet,

sorry about sounding that harsh. Sure I didn't know who was doing the comparison...my apologies for that.

I would not call myself an expert on every aspect of the Ds (e.g. don't own a turntable, so know nothing about that) but since I modded some D200 and D250 to some degree and worked with it over the past 3years in several locations I have accomplished some knowledge and routine with it.

I know it's very picky on power quality, picky on digital cables, power cables, picky on the surface (stillpoints) it rests on and even picky on EMFs induced on it. A Devialet gets mad on every plus of jitter it gets fed to on the inputs and the more you use the offered processings in the configurator, the more losses you would hear on micro details/timings. These are my findings so others may not go along with it.

I would say a D is some kind of a PC itself and I made my way through PC moding hard-/software the last months...and there seems to be no end to it. I learned that every process/service (not touching audio) in the backround that is switched off contributes to a magical natural sound of the bits/bytes. So I assume and it's my experience that if you shut off every process in the background not needed even if it being the simple countdown of a signal to serve Standby (not to say DPM) you gain in performance with a Devialet.

I had a look at the pictures of comparison you made on that day. Some things I notice are as followed.

- Someone said the D250 Pro was fed by a 5m digital AES/EBU cable. I assume that the sibiliance you all heard was due to this length/quality of cable by a large amount.
- The surface the D250 Pro stood on, was it made of wood? If it was some kind of stone this can contribute to harshness/sibiliance as well.
- The D400 rested on Mark Levinson with 'something' between its bottom and the Mark Levinson ( http://www.westdrift-forum.de/t427f26-Sh...-am-5.html )
For me that's a real no go if you seriously compare two hifi-components. I understand that there was not enough space/time to do it better but it simply is not fair for the D400. While you look at the picture the owner of this place was surely aware of the importance of audiophile bases for hifi-components as there are some (even doubled) beneath the valve-monos and the Mark Levinson. I don't know if the Levinson was switched on during performance of the D400. That's even worse then.

So no personal accusation intended by me, but it wasn't a fair comparison I would say. To some my findings may sound a bit over the edge but my experience with Ds tells me quiet the opposite.
I really liked to know why the Ds are so sensitve to some implications but they are...more than most other competitors.

Ah, one last for the room pumping. I go 100% with your theory...and what's more...could it be that one is not able to hear the fade in of a single track of an instrument with a valve-amp due to its high noise background and then one is able to hear the fade in of the track with a D for the first time in his life and...he is distracted? Hence you don't hear the pumping of the Devialet but the pumping of the Studio equipment while recording if not done right?
gui

p.s. One personal question I may ask. Why didn't you bring your whole D1000 to the competition?


Attached Files Image(s)
   
- D200 (mod) - ML Motion40 (mod) - Manger P1 (mod) - foobar 1.3.14/AO 2.20 b4/jplay 6.2/process lasso 9.0b/fidelizer 7.6 Pro/ssd/laptop(mod)/usb-D200 - 
"Oh, you can buy the other. But then it is a cost intensive learning process"
berlin
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#26
I agree that both Devialets did not get the optimal conditions. Especially the 400 was connected to a Behringer digital switch which probably had some negative impact. The distance to the Oracle CD transport was also very long, 6 or 7 meters. The AES/EBU cable was from Viablue.
The 400 was connected to the powerline with WSS cables to a Supra power strip, the other amps were connected with some very expensive looking cables. A lot of things that could be optimized for the Devialet.
But even under these conditions the difference to the 3 times more expensive systems was not night and day. It's not a shame if a 40000€ system sounds a little bit better than a 13000€ system. And I think with the track from Yello (Toy) things might have changed. For me the Devialet was somewhere between the ML 434 and the Jeff Rowland 501. The NAT Transmitter was clearly better than the other amps, but not so convincing with Yello.
And: a 400 or 800 was definitly not the best amp of the world as the new pro models show how much better it can get. And even with a 1000pro I don't think that you will not be able to find a system that sounds better. But for a price, and maybe not so flexible. And huge.
So for me there is only one amp...
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#27
(03-Dec-2016, 14:44)Vivialet Wrote: I agree that both Devialets did not get the optimal conditions. Especially the 400 was connected to a Behringer digital switch which probably had some negative impact. The distance to the Oracle CD transport was also very long, 6 or 7 meters. The AES/EBU cable was from Viablue.
The 400 was connected to the powerline with WSS cables to a Supra power strip, the other amps were connected with some very expensive looking cables. A lot of things that could be optimized for the Devialet.
But even under these conditions the difference to the 3 times more expensive systems was not night and day. It's not a shame if a 40000€ system sounds a little bit better than a 13000€ system. And I think with the track from Yello (Toy) things might have changed. For me the Devialet was somewhere between the ML 434 and the Jeff Rowland 501. The NAT Transmitter was clearly better than the other amps, but not so convincing with Yello.
And: a 400 or 800 was definitly not the best amp of the world as the new pro models show how much better it can get. And even with a 1000pro I don't think that you will not be able to find a system that sounds better. But for a price, and maybe not so flexible. And huge.
So for me there is only one amp...

That's right for everything you say. But I find it disappointing that often a D is compared to another amp/system there are real flaws in the set up of the Ds and for the competitor everything is (near) perfectly/better arranged.
I mean, is it the only fact that e.g. a D400 comes in so handy it was just showed down on a Mark Levinson? What if a D weighs 40kg? It wouldn't be treated the same way. Sometimes I think a D gets no respect since being so small and nice looking compared to other stuff. It's not taken serious. 'It's just a blinky D-Amp' while even the unique technical concept isn't understood.

I would expect a D250pro come out 1st place in this comparison when set up the right way and burned in as a 250 (not as 1000 because the circuits used inside are completely different in many aspects).
By now it's just another time it comes out as being a 'false/not natural digital amp concept' that has to be second/third to a valve and I don't think it is. I think it is (by far) superior.
Since I have not heard a 1000pro I would still think if set up right (has to be moded maybe) it would come out 1st on 90% of comparisons though it might not be the best amp of the world  Wink

gui
- D200 (mod) - ML Motion40 (mod) - Manger P1 (mod) - foobar 1.3.14/AO 2.20 b4/jplay 6.2/process lasso 9.0b/fidelizer 7.6 Pro/ssd/laptop(mod)/usb-D200 - 
"Oh, you can buy the other. But then it is a cost intensive learning process"
berlin
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#28
Can't we just keep Devialet our little secret?
Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, O d'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable, Dynaudio C1 MkII.
Jim Smith's GBS.
Northern NSW Australia.
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#29
(04-Dec-2016, 11:06)Pim van Vliet Wrote: Can't we just keep Devialet our little secret?

Don't make fun on me...I'm so sad every time a D looses ... Big Grin
- D200 (mod) - ML Motion40 (mod) - Manger P1 (mod) - foobar 1.3.14/AO 2.20 b4/jplay 6.2/process lasso 9.0b/fidelizer 7.6 Pro/ssd/laptop(mod)/usb-D200 - 
"Oh, you can buy the other. But then it is a cost intensive learning process"
berlin
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#30
(04-Dec-2016, 11:27)yabaVR Wrote:
(04-Dec-2016, 11:06)Pim van Vliet Wrote: Can't we just keep Devialet our little secret?

Don't make fun on me...I'm so sad every time a D looses ... Big Grin

Nothing wrong with a good cry once in a while. Clears the sinuses and that opens up your head for better listening. Tongue 
Just breath and enjoy the music.
Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, O d'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable, Dynaudio C1 MkII.
Jim Smith's GBS.
Northern NSW Australia.
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