Poll: Do you SAM and if so, how exactly do you choose to use it.
SAM 100% all the time
SAM at a fixed % all the time
SAM all the time, but vary the percent
SAM all the time at 0%
Sometimes SAM on or off, but 100% if on
Sometimes SAM on or off, with fixed % if on
Sometimes SAM on or off, and vary the % if on
Sometimes SAM on or off, but 0% if on
I have SAM ready speakers but prefer SAM off at all times
I do not have SAM ready speakers
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Do you use SAM?
#21
(25-Dec-2016, 15:49)Dr Tone Wrote:
(25-Dec-2016, 10:39)markush Wrote:
(25-Dec-2016, 03:45)Dr Tone Wrote: It would be nice for many to be able to have it off by default and turn it on with the remote.
That is easy to do! I have configured my remote that way - being able to switch SAM on / off just with one single klick.


You can't configure SAM to be "off by default" and then turn it on when you want with the remote.  Right now it can only be on by default and you have to turn it off after you power it up.

To turn SAM off in the Configurator, click on the SAM window, above the mono/stereo switch. In the bottom left hand corner is the switch to turn SAM on or off.
Project Eperience X Pack with Ortofon Rondo Red MC, Oppo BDP 105D, Sonos Connect, QNAP HS251+ NAS running JRiver, Mutec MC-3+USB, Devialet 440 Pro, Denon AH-D5000, Sennheiser HD600 and HD800 with Cardas cable, Rupert Neve Designs headphone amp., Proac Response D20R, Van Den Hul The First Ultimate interconnects, GSP Audio Spatia speaker cable.
South Coast England
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#22
(26-Dec-2016, 14:50)Axel Wrote:
(25-Dec-2016, 15:49)Dr Tone Wrote:
(25-Dec-2016, 10:39)markush Wrote: That is easy to do! I have configured my remote that way - being able to switch SAM on / off just with one single klick.


You can't configure SAM to be "off by default" and then turn it on when you want with the remote.  Right now it can only be on by default and you have to turn it off after you power it up.

To turn SAM off in the Configurator, click on the SAM window, above the mono/stereo switch. In the bottom left hand corner is the switch to turn SAM on or off.

If you disable it in the configurator, turning it on with the remote doesn't do anything as far as I'm aware - how would it know what speaker profile you wanted - that is Dr Tone's point I think.

I put in a request with Devialet for the feature - they said it hadn't occurred to them and hadn't been asked for
Until now. If you want it add your request with them.

Having now disabled it I'm happier without it, using EQ more closely controls what bass I get in the room, rather than just an extension. But if the feature one day became available I'd have it set to experiment when the mood took me.

Roon lifetime > Mac mini > ethernet > µRendu | Paul Hynes SR3 > Intona > Curious USB link > Devialet 250 Pro > PMC fact.8
- London, UK -

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#23
(26-Dec-2016, 16:50)Hifi_swlon Wrote:
(26-Dec-2016, 14:50)Axel Wrote:
(25-Dec-2016, 15:49)Dr Tone Wrote: You can't configure SAM to be "off by default" and then turn it on when you want with the remote.  Right now it can only be on by default and you have to turn it off after you power it up.

To turn SAM off in the Configurator, click on the SAM window, above the mono/stereo switch. In the bottom left hand corner is the switch to turn SAM on or off.

If you disable it in the configurator, turning it on with the remote doesn't do anything as far as I'm aware - how would it know what speaker profile you wanted - that is Dr Tone's point I think.

I put in a request with Devialet for the feature - they said it hadn't occurred to them and hadn't been asked for
Until now. If you want it add your request with them.

Having now disabled it I'm happier without it, using EQ more closely controls what bass I get in the room, rather than just an extension. But if the feature one day became available I'd have it set to experiment when the mood took me.

Yes, you are right of course. Apologies for the bum steer, Dr Tone. You have to have it enabled to be able to disable it!  Rolleyes
Project Eperience X Pack with Ortofon Rondo Red MC, Oppo BDP 105D, Sonos Connect, QNAP HS251+ NAS running JRiver, Mutec MC-3+USB, Devialet 440 Pro, Denon AH-D5000, Sennheiser HD600 and HD800 with Cardas cable, Rupert Neve Designs headphone amp., Proac Response D20R, Van Den Hul The First Ultimate interconnects, GSP Audio Spatia speaker cable.
South Coast England
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#24
After spending almost the last 2 weeks fiddling with my new Pro, reconfiguring my power cords in my setup and evaluating with SAM and without SAM, i finally settle without SAM.

With the decent source and proper grounding, the Pro has better transparency, true to source performance.
With SAM (mine is set to 0%), there is slightly tighter in bass and also dynamics. However, the sound at the higher frequencies seems to get slightly obscured.
Without SAM, the music seems to be slightly open up and natural to the instruments. Less impact in bass, however more definition and textures.

Comparing with the D200, the 220 Pro without SAM has a better overall performance (including the bass segment) compare to D200 with SAM on.

i am curious to see if more people have similar observations with the new Pro.
440 Pro, Acrolink 7N-DA2090 Digital cable, Plixir Elite BAC 3000 Power Conditioner, Diva Audio Power Cords
Aurender N100H, Diva Audio Power Cords, Curious USB cable, Uptone Audio USB Regen, Plixir DC LPS, Booster Vbus2 Isolator, Curious USB Regen Link, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Acrolink 7N-DA2090 AES/EBU cable
Vivid Giya G4, Diva Audio Speaker Cables
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#25
If Gui is right, that delays (did you mean jitter only, Gui?) have major impact on SQ, then phase alignment by SAM should have positive influence on sound (correcting phase delays), too. Improvement in bass seems just side-effect.

Obviously, implementation is key. If SAM implementation changes more than Devialet admits, then it might have impact on non-bass frequencies.
If Devialet's implementation is good, then maybe, maybe those reporting worsened SQ with SAM are just complaining they are missing inaccuracies they got accustomed to love?

I am wondering, who is right? I don't have SAM-ed speakers myself nor heard any with SAM on. Hence, the speculations.

By looking at waveforms of the best speakers on SAM page, it seems that the best ones really don't need the time alignment.

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#26
(04-Jan-2017, 19:26)maxijazz Wrote: If Gui is right, that delays (did you mean jitter only, Gui?) have major impact on SQ, then phase alignment by SAM should have positive influence on sound (correcting phase delays), too. Improvement in bass seems just side-effect.

Obviously, implementation is key. If SAM implementation changes more than Devialet admits, then it might have impact on non-bass frequencies.
If Devialet's implementation is good, then maybe, maybe those reporting worsened SQ with SAM are just complaining they are missing inaccuracies they got accustomed to love?

I am wondering, who is right? I don't have SAM-ed speakers myself nor heard any with SAM on. Hence, the speculations.

By looking at waveforms of the best speakers on SAM page, it seems that the best ones really don't need the time alignment.

I think it's been mentioned before but speaker makers don't necessarily design their cross overs to be exactly perfect as they are going for a particular sound & feel.  Devialet is all about measurements and perfection, so any adjustments done in the digital domain might mess with the voice the speaker manufacturer is going after.

For me with SAM some detail was missing, narrowing of the sound stage occurred, along with a bit of life was sucked out of the music.  SAM did give me a slighly warmer sound (could be good or bad), a fuller more focused center image and slightly better bass control but those didn't trump the losses for me.
Roon->RoonBridge->Air 3.02RC->Devialet 220 Pro->Transparent Super->Wilson Audio Sabrinas w/ Shunyata Denali, Rega RP8, Apheta 2, Rega Aria


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#27
With my previous Audio Physic Tempo 25 speakers SAM caused voices to be a bit too smooth. The effect on soundstage was little and the additional base - at least in my listening situation - was not desired. Since two days the owner of Sonus Faber Olympica II speakers (previously demo speakers so no burn in period needed). Now with this speaker SAM is absolutely improving soundstage, base extension and control and seems to have no impact on voices. Always wondered myself in what way SAM working differs per speaker. I can now confirm it.
Devialet 220 pro - Crystal cable speaker cable, digital interlink and power cables - Roon & squeezebox touch - Sonus Faber Olympica II
Netherlands
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#28
I am Shure that depending of speaker ,the room we use Sam , i find out that 27 % Sam is What there is bedst for me, it was 27 With 200 and now With 220 Pro ,it is the same .
Devialet 220pro ,dynaudio C1 signature ,speaker cable ,and other cable zenzati, turntable Audio note tt2,caridge ortofon cadenza Black, MC trafo ortofon verto ,connected with silver wire from audio note too devialet, blueray player primare BD 30 mrk 2. Use AS a cd and blueray player ,With good Sound.(specifict With sacd cd  Shy
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#29
(04-Jan-2017, 19:26)maxijazz Wrote: If Gui is right, that delays (did you mean jitter only, Gui?) have major impact on SQ, then phase alignment by SAM should have positive influence on sound (correcting phase delays), too. Improvement in bass seems just side-effect.

Obviously, implementation is key. If SAM implementation changes more than Devialet admits, then it might have impact on non-bass frequencies.
If Devialet's implementation is good, then maybe, maybe those reporting worsened SQ with SAM are just complaining they are missing inaccuracies they got accustomed to love?

I am wondering, who is right? I don't have SAM-ed speakers myself nor heard any with SAM on. Hence, the speculations.

By looking at waveforms of the best speakers on SAM page, it seems that the best ones really don't need the time alignment.

Naturally every delay, be it digital (jitter) or analogue phase shift, has an impact on the 3D-mapping of the music and can also be heard sonically (boomy bass, sibilance etc.). Calculating time delay is the way the human ear/brain works to locate any sound in his environment. Back in the past and even today this ability was/is critical to survive hence we're so good in recognizing differences in time delay. In nature there is no phase shifts in single sounds. If you suddenly hear a loud noise in your back you instantly know if it is near or far away and what origin the sound was (most times). You can locate it instantly.

Now if you have an instrument played through your audio and there are several frequency patterns of this instrument coming too fast or too slow to your ears (time delay/phase shift) it will first not sound natural anymore and second you cannot locate it precisely. Side effects are sonical hiss/sibilance/boomy bass etc.
But as ever there is a distraction in the perception by some people. I witnessed several occations where people heard better location of instruments when information of room reflections in the recording were lessend due to bad phase shift. They found the soundstage improved because everything got "clearer" to them hence their brain had less to work (less to get it all together). That's mostly because there're several bad phase shifts left they couldn't get together. For them it was easier to get by with more sibilance and boom and restless background than the only partial improved time delay patterns.

It's a very personal perception game we're playing here hence all the different opinions.

gui
- D200 (mod) - ML Motion40 (mod) - Manger P1 (mod) - foobar 1.3.14/AO 2.20 b4/jplay 6.2/process lasso 9.0b/fidelizer 7.6 Pro/ssd/laptop(mod)/usb-D200 - 
"Oh, you can buy the other. But then it is a cost intensive learning process"
berlin
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#30
(23-Dec-2016, 18:19)yabaVR Wrote: Hey Confused, 
how do you use SAM since you did the SAM-Test?
I bet you know what my vote was  Rolleyes.

gui

The 'Gui' SAM test was interesting and I would recommend it to anyone interested in hearing for themselves exactly what SAM on or off does with respect to the finest details. However, since getting the Pro, I can confirm that I am keeping SAM on all the time.  I did do a bit of experimenting since getting the Pro, and what I find is that the benefit I get from keeping SAM on significantly exceeds the loss of detail (which I found to be relatively small) that results from SAM on.  Of course all of this is system dependant and I think to a large degree is a case of personal preferences, priorities and music choices.  Or to put it another way, having done the 'Gui' test I can imagine a situation where I am listening to a particular type of music and I might flick SAM off to gain a small benefit in micro details.  However, for almost everything I ever listen to it would be SAM on.  I guess that is one splendid feature of SAM, it's optional and can be turned on or off at the flick of the remote.
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - microRendu - Mutec MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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