Two Phantoms as rear AV channels (bypass Dialog)

[JohnnySix]

I have recently returned to the adventure of trying to integrate Phantoms into my AV system. Given that I have abandoned them as primary/front channels, I thought they might make a perfect complement to my D120-driven music & front channels, because they (a) wouldn't have trailing wires to the back of the room and (b) also act as twin subwoofers to-boot!
I have managed some rudimentary success, using my HTPC to delay the fronts by 150ms to meet the Phantom delay (and route the sub channel to the Phantoms to achieve awsome LFE effects!), but it is inconsistent.

So, abandoning principle (a) I have aquired USB-to-Optical converters to feed each Phantom with independent L/R rear channels. Although this (disappointingly) only halves the delay, it IS far more predecitable & consistent.

However, my problem is I can't work out how to configure two Phantoms to dedicate themselves to their Optical inputs WITHOUT a dialog (which I do possess BTW). Everytime I use Spark to set up one as Solo, I can't setup the 2nd one because it assumes I've only got the one. I tried switching the 1st off while re-setting up the 2nd, but then I think Spark forgot about the first.

I think I might be battling the fact that Phantoms always want to share their optical feeds with a partner. And then volume control becomes an issue...

Any ideas how I can fool 2 Phantoms into operating solo at the same time on the same home network?

[ogs]

I think the only way to use them Solo in this setting is to use the optical input of the Phantoms (if you can find a way to separate the channels). If they are networked, Spark will be confused. I had a discussion with Devialet support on this some time ago. You'll have to network (ethernet) one Phantom, set it up with Spark - enable optical and set volume - then disconnect it and connect the other one and do the same. After a power cycle you'll have to do the same - for the volume anyway. The optical setting may be remembered
NOTE: This is theory as I have not tested the procedure.

Edit: Which USB-to-Optical converter is it?

[bobxxxx]

you can have two analog to optical converters CYP AU-D4

SR preout => analog input ® to opt converter => optical input phantom 1
SL preout => analog input (L) to opt converter => optical input phantom 2

In spark (you can configure several rooms):
room 1 : set phantom 1 on R
room 2 : set phantom 2 on L
activate optical input on both phantom
set room 1 & 2 with same volume

[alandbush]

I would have agreed with your comment regarding inconsistency of audio delay a year or more ago. I assume you mean that you regularly change the Htpc audio delay to the front speakers to keep them in sync with the Phantom rears.
But since the many software and firmware updates I have found my setup to be very consistent with no need to tweak audio delays. Perhaps that is because all the speakers are routed by the Dialog and all the relative delays are maintained. However, I have not found the need to change delays to maintain lip sync so assume that the Dialog is now consistent.
I route four digital stereo signals out from a modded Oppo to three phantoms (left and right, centre and sub, surround left and right) and a Yamaha sound bar (rear left and right). The Phantoms are all routed via the Dialog which also handles master volume control and the Oppo handles the relative delays and volume difference between all speakers. The Yamaha has its own audio delay which I have also not needed to change for some time.
Not much help for you I'm afraid.

[baconbrain]

I would have agreed with your comment regarding inconsistency of audio delay a year or more ago.  I assume you mean that you regularly change the Htpc audio delay to the front speakers to keep them in sync with the Phantom rears.
But since the many software and firmware updates I have found my setup to be very consistent with no need to tweak audio delays.  Perhaps that is because all the speakers are routed by the Dialog and all the relative delays are maintained.  However, I have not found the need to change delays to maintain lip sync so assume that the Dialog is now consistent.
I route four digital stereo signals out from a modded Oppo to three phantoms (left and right, centre and sub, surround left and right) and a Yamaha sound bar (rear left and right).  The Phantoms are all routed via the Dialog which also handles master volume control and the Oppo handles the relative delays and volume difference between all speakers.  The Yamaha has its own audio delay which I have also not needed to change for some time.
Not much help for you I'm afraid.

Interesting setup with the Vanity Board. Sounds like it might be just what I need once it comes out for the 203!

[JohnnySix]

Having a modded Oppo certainly sounds like a great solution, and less of a problem if all channels are Phantoms. When you are trying to match Phantoms with traditionally-driven front channels, just a few milliseconds makes all the difference, or else you get echo & phasing effects.

I also am trying to stay in the digital domain (like with alandbush's Oppo). That's why I just use USB-to-Optical convertors. I now have 3 of those, one Peachtree X1 and 2 cheapies off eBay (Delock etc.) because I couldn't source another cheap X1.

I am very interested in bobxxxx's suggestion about allocating different rooms for independent Solo control... that never occurred to me in my latest attempts. Ultimately though, I suspect that my 'hybrid' approach is more trouble than it's worth, especially with the volume resetting to 35 every time. (Stop BABYING us, Devialet!)

An all-Phantom AV setup must be AWSOME! As far as I'm concerned, that's what they were really born to do (even 2 channels blew me away when I had them as fronts).

[JohnnySix]

you can have two analog to optical converters CYP AU-D4

SR preout => analog input  ® to opt converter => optical input phantom 1
SL preout => analog input (L) to opt converter => optical input phantom 2

In spark (you can configure several rooms):
room 1 : set phantom 1 on R
room 2 : set phantom 2 on L
activate optical input on both phantom
set room 1 & 2 with same volume

Can you clarify whether these instructions involve a Dialog (initially or otherwise)? I've tried allocating them to different rooms by setting them up individually without Dialog, but once they're both powered on again, Spark seems to keep resetting them to the same room and they start operating in a "mutually exclusive" manner! (If the Dialog is involved, then I don't see how they won't try to share their Optical feed with the other)

[alandbush]

I read it as using a Dialog.

That is the way that I configure my 5 Phantoms into 3 rooms.
Three optical inputs, one per Phantom, are each allocated to a room for a total of 3 rooms. Two of the rooms are configured as a pair of Phantoms with the stereo signal split appropriately (front L/R and side L/R). The other configured as a mix to one Phantom which receives the centre channel.

I thought, however, that you wanted to omit the Dialog because of the larger audio delay.

[JohnnySix]

Yes, I do want to eliminate the Dialog. I was just trying to clarify if one has to use it during configuration, but can then remove it once all phantoms have been told to play from their -individual- optical input feeds. That individuality is the essential problem though, they are designed for sharing their signal with a partner, but whether that applies across rooms is still unknown to me.