Upsampling in Roon 1.3

[octaviars]

Thanks a lot for explaining a reason for the soft crack/pop sound between songs. Nice to learn new things!   
Initially I also got some dropouts/muted sound but I got it solved by defining a buffer time of 100 ms in the HQPlayer.

Currently I'm using following settings when upsampling to 192khz:
- Filter: Poly-sinc-shrt-mp
- Dither: NS9

I have no idea whether there is a better sounding setting available but this already sounds quite nice. Fast and clear with a great bass definition. Perhaps the most obvious difference there is in the bass definition. I would be happy to hear whether you could find something better. Of course the differences are not huge or dramatic, but hey, this software only costs 150 euros. I have spent a lot more on cables and tweaks... 

With DSD64 I have tried following settings but I didn't do any critical listening with these yet.
- Oversampling: Poly-sinc-shrt-mp and Poly-sinc-shrt-mp-2s
- Modulator: ASDM7 and DSD7

Thanks for your answer. 

I might buy HQ Player just to try it as you say 150€ is not that much compared to what we spend on other stuff.

[petrik]

I did some more testing yesterday. It seems that I'm getting the best results by disabling Roon's DSP completely and by doing all upsampling and convolution in the HQPlayer. For some reason Roon's DSP makes sound a bit veiled which I don't like.

I'm still trying different settings in the HQPlayer, but upsampling to 192 khz with previously mentioned settings brings great energy and excitement into the music. But on the other hand, upsampling to DSD64 sounds calmer, cleaner and more sophisticated. It probably depends on system and personal preferences which setting sounds best.

[octaviars]

I did some more testing yesterday. It seems that I'm get the best results by disabling Roon's DSP completely and by doing all upsampling and convolution in the HQPlayer. For some reason Roon's DSP makes sound a bit veiled which I don't like.

I'm still trying different settings in the HQPlayer, but upsampling to 192 khz with previously mentioned settings brings great energy and excitement into the music. But on the other hand, upsampling to DSD64 sounds calmer, cleaner and more sophisticated. It probably depends on system and personal preferences which setting sounds best.

This is exactly what I have seen others write about the DSP in Roon perhaps they will develop more settings for the DSP in the future. As it is the first version there will perhaps be improvement coming along the road.

[Petter]

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2017/01/1...vers-data/

[Confused]

As an update to the posts above. I have been advised that the dSC Network Bridge does not support HQPlayer's NAA protocol. So "RoonReady" means that RAAT is supported, but implies nothing with respect to NAA.

So my idea that the Network bridge fed by HQPlayer could prove to be audio nirvana is a not starter. It would provide silence only. This still leaves the question of how good the dCS would be with good old RAAT.

[Hifi_swlon]

RoonReady is a Roon term, for hardware certified and tested with Roon and RAAT, rather than a generic term for supporting anything relating to Roon..... If there was enough pressure maybe they'd add NAA, but possibly not bearing in mind the price of the Vivaldi upsampler...

Have you tried your rendu in NAA mode? There are definitely a contingent that say it sounds better than running it in Roon mode. I honestly couldn't detect a difference when I tried. But HQPlayer just isn't for me really - I wanted to hear a positive difference, but just got frustrated trying various settings, all of which largely sounded the same in my setup. I also don't like the extra delay.

[Confused]

RoonReady is a Roon term, for hardware certified and tested with Roon and RAAT, rather than a generic term for supporting anything relating to Roon..... If there was enough pressure maybe they'd add NAA, but possibly not bearing in mind the price of the Vivaldi upsampler...

Have you tried your rendu in NAA mode? There are definitely a contingent that say it sounds better than running it in Roon mode. I honestly couldn't detect a difference when I tried. But HQPlayer just isn't for me really - I wanted to hear a positive difference, but just got frustrated trying various settings, all of which largely sounded the same in my setup. I also don't like the extra delay.

I'm think that dCS might consider HQPlayer a rival, rather than something nice and cuddly that they would want to accommodate.  So I somehow doubt NAA protocol will be supported anytime soon.  You never know though, I'm sure they could do it if they wanted to.

No, I have not tried the microRendu in NAA mode.  I do plan to try the 30 day trial of HQPlayer (Windows is 30 day, Mac trial version is restricted to 30 minutes running).  However, in order to try everything I would want to try during the 30 day trial, I need to wait until the Linux mR patch for native DSD to the Mutec is sorted out.  Sonore are looking at this, all I need to do is patiently wait.......

[Hifi_swlon]

RoonReady is a Roon term, for hardware certified and tested with Roon and RAAT, rather than a generic term for supporting anything relating to Roon..... If there was enough pressure maybe they'd add NAA, but possibly not bearing in mind the price of the Vivaldi upsampler...

Have you tried your rendu in NAA mode? There are definitely a contingent that say it sounds better than running it in Roon mode. I honestly couldn't detect a difference when I tried. But HQPlayer just isn't for me really - I wanted to hear a positive difference, but just got frustrated trying various settings, all of which largely sounded the same in my setup. I also don't like the extra delay.

I'm think that dCS might consider HQPlayer a rival, rather than something nice and cuddly that they would want to accommodate.  So I somehow doubt NAA protocol will be supported anytime soon.  You never know though, I'm sure they could do it if they wanted to.

No, I have not tried the microRendu in NAA mode.  I do plan to try the 30 day trial of HQPlayer (Windows is 30 day, Mac trial version is restricted to 30 minutes running).  However, in order to try everything I would want to try during the 30 day trial, I need to wait until the Linux mR patch for native DSD to the Mutec is sorted out.  Sonore are looking at this, all I need to do is patiently wait.......

I think the 30 min limit was probably why I gave up thinking back, it was pretty annoying. Bit of a difference 30 days vs 30 minutes! Ok, I know you can restart but it's hardly relaxing having to keep restarting HQPlayer, especially over vnc.

I still don't follow the logic of upsampling only to downsample to pcm in the Mutec, but I'm curious to hear about it.

I've been using max 2x rate pcm in Roon for a week, which doesn't tax my Mac and certainly doesn't seem worse. I'll turn it off soon and see if I miss anything. Which is doubtful as I just don't think I can detect these nuances. I do hear other changes like EQ and speaker placement, but not this.

[KIBM]

I too have been having fun with the upsampling feature - mainly stuck at 176.4 kHz for the last week or so. Compared to 44.1kHz I thought it was a tad more dynamic, a bit richer and smoother, a bit more air (especially depth). However, on going back to 44.1kHz I immediately felt that there was more balls to the sound - just more edge and (perceived) dynamics - I felt more involved.
Is this a programme or mood thing?

My experience with HiRes audio has not been particularly positive. I borrowed a Marantz SACD player (lots of copper v. heavy) in the late 90s along with 3 or 4 discs. All very nice - spacious and detailed - but I found it a bit too smooth and slow sounding - in fact I distinctly remember the slowed rhythmic aspect.
In the last couple of years I've tried HiRes material from HR Download and Qobuz - all stored on my NAS. This included 96kHz downloads from Steely Dan, Donald Fagan, Allmann Bros and Rush, as well a 192 kHz from Bob Marley. Only the Donald Fagan download (Morph the Cat) seemed significantly better than my own CD rips (well maybe SD Gaucho was a tad better). The 192 kHz Bob Marley was a disgrace - quieter, smoother and dynamically constrained - nowhere near as vibrant and exciting as my own CD rip. If Bob is not involving then there is something really wrong!

For me properly recorded or remastered 44.1 kHz would seem hard to beat if your Transport or Streamer is up to it.
I am probably in a minority here of course - maybe these ears are getting a bit old and need the rougher old material to wake up!

Kevin
ps how the hell does this all work if the Devialet upsamples all signals to 192 kHz anyway ???
pps years ago I had a Wadia 861 Tank/CD player. It had three filtering/sampling options A,B,C. A was preferred by Wadia as their mega oversampling algorithm. Periodically I would convince myself that B and C were better, only to go back to A sometime later and proclaim it miles better. This deluded cycle would occur several times a year - maybe it was something to do with the moon

[Dr Tone]

I was having a harsh sound day today. So I turned on multiple of 2 upsampling/minimum phase and it worked for me. I felt it brought a a rather sweet fullness to to the sound and took the edge off.

I wonder what tomorrow's mood will bring.