120 vs Supernait/HDX

[mikehughescq]

Interesting? Thanks. Did you listen with the power up first of all before lowering it or did you just lower it immediately without listening? If the former then what differences did you note? Given the reviews of the 120 et al I would expect it to significantly out perform an XS. There are people claiming it can outperform amps much higher up the Naim chain.

[warpeon]

Interesting? Thanks. Did you listen with the power up first of all before lowering it or did you just lower it immediately without listening? If the former then what differences did you note? Given the reviews of the 120 et al I would expect it to significantly out perform an XS. There are people claiming it can outperform amps much higher up the Naim chain.

I did the standard setup first. then I find soul is either shouting or whispering. Then I played with the configurator and found i could dial down the output power. i pressed the power output to 60W (cause I think naim xs is ~60W), it worked. didn't complain and started listening. i don't think it is a fair comparison for devialet with naim. Naim is a completely different animal - its about the warmth, the musicality, the ability to drive emotions. Devialet is pleasant, neutral, and engaging.

[PhilP]

Interesting? Thanks. Did you listen with the power up first of all before lowering it or did you just lower it immediately without listening? If the former then what differences did you note? Given the reviews of the 120 et al I would expect it to significantly out perform an XS. There are people claiming it can outperform amps much higher up the Naim chain.

I did the standard setup first. then I find soul is either shouting or whispering. Then I played with the configurator and found i could dial down the output power. i pressed the power output to 60W (cause I think naim xs is ~60W), it worked. didn't complain and started listening. i don't think it is a fair comparison for devialet with naim. Naim is a completely different animal - its about the warmth, the musicality, the ability to drive emotions. Devialet is pleasant, neutral, and engaging.

I would agree that some Naim equipment has a warmer sound than Devialet though I wouldn't describe some of their products for example the NAC 202, CDX, CDX2 and most of their speakers that way My NDX has a much fuller sound than my iMac/iTunes/Qobuz which is why I've kept it even though it has been boxed up for sale a couple of times.

What made me move to Devialet from a sound quality point of view (from NDX/XPS2/HILINE/282/HICAP /200) was that it was possible to hear so much more of the music through the Devialet. I could follow instrumental lines much more easily, I could hear new instruments on tracks that I thought I knew really well, it became much easier to understand lyrics, and bass lines went deeper and were much tighter. The overall sound was more natural. The whole character of some recordings changed - I must say not always for the better - but I think the result is probably closer to what the musicians intended. The very top-end Naim systems - NDS/555/552/500 can deliver similar levels of detail and accuracy to Devialet whilst keeping the Naim sound albeit at a much higher cost (2x the price of an 800). The lesser Naim models are far behind Devialet IMHO - certainly at equivalent price points.

[mikehughescq]

Thank you both. I'm reading about many people moving from Naim because they're finding the DVLA does what Naim does in terms of toe tapping, leading edge stuff but also adds neutrality and depth so you can hear inside the music as well as hear a cohesive whole.

Not sure I'd describe Naim stuff as warm. Coloured maybe with the leading edge emphasis. Interesting to see people leaping from all levels of Naim kit though.

My main concern is with the Zu. I love them but they brutally expose what's going on so I want to make everything as compatible as possible in the time I have the D-Premier on demo so that everything gets a fair chance.

Warpeon, I'm fascinated by your description of full power. I wonder whether what you're describing is the Zu doing what they do best IMO - dynamics or exposing an upstream issue?

I'm sure they can be overdone but mine are at their best when fed truly dynamic music as they can show the difference between quiet and loud to be shockingly huge. I can imagine some people would hate that. It does come as a shock when you first hear that and I can well believe it could be, or could be perceived to be, too shouty and almost too realistic for some people.

I'm not sure "pleasant" is an aspiration of mine so I do wonder whether I should try somewhere between your two settings? Some posts I've read suggests that the lower power makes things smoother at the expense of detail and balance. Would welcome your thoughts on this.

Also, how do people find the analogue input? My CDX2/XPS2 is staying until it dies and it's analogue only. I read that the analogue inputs are hugely inferior to the digital. I appreciate a DeVialet is a digital domain product but I need to have useable analogue until such time as I am forced to make a decision on a new source.

Incidentally, does the 120 go below 60?

[GuillaumeB]

I read that the analogue inputs are hugely inferior to the digital. I appreciate a DeVialet is a digital domain product but I need to have useable analogue until such time as I am forced to make a decision on a new source.

I'm really not so sure about that! When I first got my Devialet I ran a Linn KDS through it and it sounded utterly superb. In fact the Devialet initially replaced my Linn Klimax Kontrol and two Linn Klimax Solo mono blocks, so pure amplification duties. The Devialet was so transparent that every nuance of the KDS sound was faithfully transferred.

I've also heard of people using high-end DACs with the Devialet for e.g. top models from totaldac and MSB and again the results are fantastic.

Not only that but the phono stage in the Devialet is reputed to be among the best out there, presumably this is also making use of Devialet's ADC technology.

Guillaume

[Rufus McDufus]

It's worth pointing out some (me for instance and Guillaume I seem to recall, plus others) have generally noted the Devialet sounds a lot better with the analogue input set to (the default I believe) 96KHz as opposed to 192KHz. I automatically set stuff to the highest resolution possible (is that a man thing?) but suffered the consequences in this case when I used my Linn KDS/1 into it. Just struck me I must check my phono source....

[mikehughescq]

Thanks guys. Exactly the sort of useful info I needed in advance of a demo.

[mikehughescq]

So, got a D-Premier for a week. Had to make some compromises in as much as Naimcdx2 plus xps2 is analogue output only. Obviously DAC to DAC isn't ideal and these Chord interconnects are unfamiliar to me. My room also less than ideal as Christmas tree currently in main listening position and the Zu position is obviously set up for my Naim boxes and may ultimately need changing were this as option I chose to pursue.

Experimented with a few power settings but settled on 60W as the Zu are very efficient and I felt I lost detail at the expense of coherence at 120 and 240.

So, a few questions:

The neutrality is growing on me. When I can listen at higher volumes I'll have a better feel for this but at present it all feels a bit bass/mid light. All thoughts welcome but in light of GuillaimeBs post above I'm wondering if he true nature of my CDP has just been exposed, or could it be something else?

I clearly don't need the power of a D-Premier. I certainly don't need the full range of inputs either. How would people characterise the sound differences between a D and a 120?

Is the black matt still an option?

[PhilP]

The neutrality is growing on me. When I can listen at higher volumes I'll have a better feel for this but at present it all feels a bit bass/mid light. All thoughts welcome but in light of GuillaimeBs post above I'm wondering if he true nature of my CDP has just been exposed, or could it be something else?

Mike,

I owned a CDX2/XPS2 for several years before moving to NDX/XPS2. IMO the NDX has greater bass extension than the CDX2 so perhaps the latter is a little bass light.

Another factor may be that Naim amps generally have quite full bass (often referred to as a mid-upper bass 'hump' which is appealing) but the bass doesn't go as deep as the Devialet - from what I've experienced not until you get to 552 level. Bass extension and control improved considerably when I moved from 282/HC/200 to Devialet 200.

I am very pleased with the results I get playing my LP12 through the Devialet which seems to very accurately convey the colourful character of the Linn. So I can only conclude that the analogue inputs are excellent. So perhaps what you're hearing is a true representation of the CdX2? It is one of Naim's most characterful products and was 'voiced' to match their classic range so maybe it's not a good match for Devialet.

FWIW, I recently compared my NDX via digital and analogue outputs into my Devialet 200 and there was a considerable difference. The analogue connection was pleasant to listen to with a warm, rounded sound. The digital connection (I.e. By-passing the NDX's DAC) gave a much more open, detailed sound and was significantly better.

Philip

[warpeon]

So, got a D-Premier for a week. Had to make some compromises in as much as Naimcdx2 plus xps2 is analogue output only. Obviously DAC to DAC isn't ideal and these Chord interconnects are unfamiliar to me. My room also less than ideal as Christmas tree currently in main listening position and the Zu position is obviously set up for my Naim boxes and may ultimately need changing were this as option I chose to pursue.

Experimented with a few power settings but settled on 60W as the Zu are very efficient and I felt I lost detail at the expense of coherence at 120 and 240.

So, a few questions:

The neutrality is growing on me. When I can listen at higher volumes I'll have a better feel for this but at present it all feels a bit bass/mid light. All thoughts welcome but in light of GuillaimeBs post above I'm wondering if he true nature of my CDP has just been exposed, or could it be something else?

I clearly don't need the power of a D-Premier. I certainly don't need the full range of inputs either. How would people characterise the sound differences between a D and a 120?

Is the black matt still an option?

I think what you are experiencing is naim withdrawal syndrome. If you listen carefully with devialet/zu, the bass is actually nicely defined. mid is clear. I believe Naim has a bit more emphasis on a rounded mid to create the warm and fuzzy feeling. I tried to MAKE devialet sound like naim, but I can't yet - I tried a couple different speaker cables to tune the sound. just doesn't work. I was told all the NEW devialet has the same sound (the D sound slightly different), except adequate power will unleash the full potential of the speakers. Why is why I don't think Zu need more than 120.

Now that I've bought the 120. From time to time, I regret not getting the 200 - although I don't see a need for the power / inputs more than what 120 offers, if I ever do upgrade, 120 may not be able to provide the power required. for example, I visited to the shanghai showroom (while I was on biz trip), I listed to the 200 + Audio Physics tempo 25, I thought the 200 was "just" enough to power the tempo 25.