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Devialet v Benchmark/Parasound/Pass Labs
#1
Jeff Fritz replies to a letter from a reader with a Devialet dilemma...

http://www.ultraaudio.com/index.php/lett...-pass-labs

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, 2 X SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

UK
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#2
(25-Nov-2014, 16:46)GuillaumeB Wrote: Jeff Fritz replies to a letter from a reader with a Devialet dilemma...

http://www.ultraaudio.com/index.php/lett...-pass-labs

Guillaume

It's ironic that the reader asked Jeff Fritz which road to take, when it was obvious. Sometimes people want audio critics to tell them what to do instead of trusting their own ears (do you want analytical vs. warmed-up sound) and preferences (do you want a product suite vs. an all-in-one). The only thing missing was Fritz talking about the free upgrade path of Devialet, which is an ace in the hole. Always interesting to read discussions such as this.
Devialet Expert 220 Pro Kinki EX-M7 power amp tethered to a fiber-fed Lumin X1 streamer via Grimm XLRs, Vivid B1 Decade speakers in Rosso Barchetta red (only 200 produced in a limited edition), Roon Nucleus with a Samsung 860 EVO 2TB SSD, etherREGEN switch fed by a Sonore opticalModule (and Sonore-supplied transceivers and 1M optical cable) with a SOtM dCBL-Cat7 cable to my Nucleus and a DH Labs Reunion Cat8 to my Lumin T2 streamer, Keces P8 linear power supply feeding a (to come) NUC and EtherREGEN switch with an external AfterDark OCXO clock., and opticalModule (5V/1A), AudioQuest Niagara 1000 power conditioner, ASI LiveLine loom (purchased directly from Franck Tchang when I lived in France), Less Loss Firewall for Speakers and Roon lifetime license with Tidal streaming.
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#3
(26-Nov-2014, 06:50)Flashman Wrote:
(25-Nov-2014, 16:46)GuillaumeB Wrote: Jeff Fritz replies to a letter from a reader with a Devialet dilemma...

http://www.ultraaudio.com/index.php/lett...-pass-labs

Guillaume

It's ironic that the reader asked Jeff Fritz which road to take, when it was obvious. Sometimes people want audio critics to tell them what to do instead of trusting their own ears (do you want analytical vs. warmed-up sound) and preferences (do you want a product suite vs. an all-in-one). The only thing missing was Fritz talking about the free upgrade path of Devialet, which is an ace in the hole. Always interesting to read discussions such as this.

Agree - I wouldn't describe Dev as "set-it-and-forget-it". The configurator and multiple interfaces (as well as the upgrade path that you mention) give ample scope for tweaking.
Devialet 1000 Pro. Martin Logan Montis, Michell Gyrodec, Melco N1ZH, Mutec MC3+ USB
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#4
Hi,

It was I who wrote the letter to Jeff Fritz and I note that Flashman and ozthepos (purposely?) misinterpret my mail. I did NOT ask Jeff Fritz to tell me what is best or what to buy. My mail concerned a technical question based on a curiosity about my own reactions when comparing the Devialet with a separate component solution. Given his long experience with many different types of amplifiers (and that his profession is to analyze hi-fi equipment) I thought it would be interesting to hear his view about the differences I heard in my comparison.

The types of comments that you post are so typical for those who really are uncertain on their own ears (which I am not). It is called regret aversion, i.e. a manic fear of having purchased the wrong thing, resulting in a Don Quixote behavior fighting every expressed opinion that does not imply an unreserved hallelujah for the product under discussion.

I might, or I might not, purchase a Devialet. But that decision will surely be dependent only on my own ears (and budget). I hope that you two can relax a bit and be happy with your Devialet(s) instead of worrying about what other persons might prefer. You deserve it, the Devialet is an outstanding product and you have made a very good purchase!

/Kari
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#5
(04-Dec-2014, 13:35)Kari Wrote: Hi,

It was I who wrote the letter to Jeff Fritz and I note that Flashman and ozthepos (purposely?) misinterpret my mail. I did NOT ask Jeff Fritz to tell me what is best or what to buy. My mail concerned a technical question based on a curiosity about my own reactions when comparing the Devialet with a separate component solution. Given his long experience with many different types of amplifiers (and that his profession is to analyze hi-fi equipment) I thought it would be interesting to hear his view about the differences I heard in my comparison.

The types of comments that you post are so typical for those who really are uncertain on their own ears (which I am not). It is called regret aversion, i.e. a manic fear of having purchased the wrong thing, resulting in a Don Quixote behavior fighting every expressed opinion that does not imply an unreserved hallelujah for the product under discussion.

I might, or I might not, purchase a Devialet. But that decision will surely be dependent only on my own ears (and budget). I hope that you two can relax a bit and be happy with your Devialet(s) instead of worrying about what other persons might prefer. You deserve it, the Devialet is an outstanding product and you have made a very good purchase!

/Kari

Hi Kari

No offense intended. I am happy with the Devialet and know that others prefer a different type of sound, so that's not a problem for me. I wish you happy audio hunting!

All best, Flashman
Devialet Expert 220 Pro Kinki EX-M7 power amp tethered to a fiber-fed Lumin X1 streamer via Grimm XLRs, Vivid B1 Decade speakers in Rosso Barchetta red (only 200 produced in a limited edition), Roon Nucleus with a Samsung 860 EVO 2TB SSD, etherREGEN switch fed by a Sonore opticalModule (and Sonore-supplied transceivers and 1M optical cable) with a SOtM dCBL-Cat7 cable to my Nucleus and a DH Labs Reunion Cat8 to my Lumin T2 streamer, Keces P8 linear power supply feeding a (to come) NUC and EtherREGEN switch with an external AfterDark OCXO clock., and opticalModule (5V/1A), AudioQuest Niagara 1000 power conditioner, ASI LiveLine loom (purchased directly from Franck Tchang when I lived in France), Less Loss Firewall for Speakers and Roon lifetime license with Tidal streaming.
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#6
(04-Dec-2014, 13:35)Kari Wrote: Hi,

It was I who wrote the letter to Jeff Fritz and I note that Flashman and ozthepos (purposely?) misinterpret my mail. I did NOT ask Jeff Fritz to tell me what is best or what to buy. My mail concerned a technical question based on a curiosity about my own reactions when comparing the Devialet with a separate component solution. Given his long experience with many different types of amplifiers (and that his profession is to analyze hi-fi equipment) I thought it would be interesting to hear his view about the differences I heard in my comparison.

The types of comments that you post are so typical for those who really are uncertain on their own ears (which I am not). It is called regret aversion, i.e. a manic fear of having purchased the wrong thing, resulting in a Don Quixote behavior fighting every expressed opinion that does not imply an unreserved hallelujah for the product under discussion.

I might, or I might not, purchase a Devialet. But that decision will surely be dependent only on my own ears (and budget). I hope that you two can relax a bit and be happy with your Devialet(s) instead of worrying about what other persons might prefer. You deserve it, the Devialet is an outstanding product and you have made a very good purchase!

/Kari

Hi Kari, welcome to Devialet Chat! Smile I thought it was an excellent letter hence why I posted about it in here.

I have also had similar dilemmas and I don't think there is an easy answer. You will note elsewhere in this forum that I recently auditioned a Vitus SIA-025 and MPD-201 DAC. Not because I am looking at selling my Devialet and moving on but rather that I am very interested in hi-fi and love to hear other things from time to time. And of course the opportunity to do so came up. There was much that I really loved about the Vitus combo, in particular it gave a very dense slightly warm soundstage and was supremely musical in a way that perhaps the Devialet isn't. On the other hand whilst I really enjoyed this there were things about the Devialet that I missed! In a nutshell the transparency and lower end grip. And funnily enough the Devialet remote! I had a few friends over in that time, some of which were true audiophiles. It was interesting that some preferred the Vitus sound and others the Devialet.

Having said this I do think that the 800 dual mono package gets you pretty close to some of the other über high-end combos, particularly with upgraded cables and other tweaks. Using SAM-enabled speakers also helps to close the gap.

In the end some of your choice will come down to economics; as much as I'd love a Constellation Audio Virgo preamp with Centaur monoblocks with a Metronome Nausicaa DAC and matching Transparent Audio Ref XL cables, this will set me back at least £130k. That's the attraction of the Devialet proposition, you are getting a ridiculous amount of performance for your money. Particularly if you consider the price of a 120 or 200.

Please keep us posted with your quest.

Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research

220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, 2 X SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD

UK
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#7
(04-Dec-2014, 14:09)GuillaumeB Wrote:
(04-Dec-2014, 13:35)Kari Wrote: Hi,

It was I who wrote the letter to Jeff Fritz and I note that Flashman and ozthepos (purposely?) misinterpret my mail. I did NOT ask Jeff Fritz to tell me what is best or what to buy. My mail concerned a technical question based on a curiosity about my own reactions when comparing the Devialet with a separate component solution. Given his long experience with many different types of amplifiers (and that his profession is to analyze hi-fi equipment) I thought it would be interesting to hear his view about the differences I heard in my comparison.

The types of comments that you post are so typical for those who really are uncertain on their own ears (which I am not). It is called regret aversion, i.e. a manic fear of having purchased the wrong thing, resulting in a Don Quixote behavior fighting every expressed opinion that does not imply an unreserved hallelujah for the product under discussion.

I might, or I might not, purchase a Devialet. But that decision will surely be dependent only on my own ears (and budget). I hope that you two can relax a bit and be happy with your Devialet(s) instead of worrying about what other persons might prefer. You deserve it, the Devialet is an outstanding product and you have made a very good purchase!

/Kari

Hi Kari, welcome to Devialet Chat! Smile I thought it was an excellent letter hence why I posted about it in here.

I have also had similar dilemmas and I don't think there is an easy answer. You will note elsewhere in this forum that I recently auditioned a Vitus SIA-025 and MPD-201 DAC. Not because I am looking at selling my Devialet and moving on but rather that I am very interested in hi-fi and love to hear other things from time to time. There was much that I really loved about the Vitus combo, in particular it gave a very dense slightly warm soundstage and was supremely musical in a way that perhaps the Devialet isn't. On the other hand whilst I really enjoyed this there were things about the Devialet that I missed! In a nutshell the transparency and lower end grip. And funnily enough the Devialet remote! I had a few friends over in that time, some of which were true audiophiles. It was interesting that some preferred the Vitus sound and others the Devialet.

Having said this I do think that the 800 dual mono package gets you pretty close to some of the other über high-end combos, particularly with upgraded cables and other tweaks. Using SAM-enabled speakers also helps to close the gap.

In the end some of your choice will come down to economics; as much as I'd love a Constelation Audio Virgo preamp with Centaur monoblocks with a Metronome Nausicaa DAC and matching Transparent Audio Ref XL cables, this will set me back at least £130k. That's the attraction of the Devialet proposition, you are getting a ridiculous amount of performance for your money. Particularly if you consider the price of a 120 or 200.

Please keep us posted with your quest.

Guillaume

Well stated Guillaume. At one time I had a nice tube amp/pre-amp combo with some modified Klipsch Forté speakers (original incarnation) and I will never forget the haunting palpable sound of Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong on an old recording of "April in Paris." I moved on to other audio equipment but I do miss that elusive warm sound from time to time. As with you, the Devialet trumps everything that I have encountered in terms of price/quality/simplicity/upgrade path. But as with everything in life, it comes down to preferences and choice. That's what makes this hobby so fun, and alternately, perplexing. It's a journey of discovery without a particular destination, so to speak.
Devialet Expert 220 Pro Kinki EX-M7 power amp tethered to a fiber-fed Lumin X1 streamer via Grimm XLRs, Vivid B1 Decade speakers in Rosso Barchetta red (only 200 produced in a limited edition), Roon Nucleus with a Samsung 860 EVO 2TB SSD, etherREGEN switch fed by a Sonore opticalModule (and Sonore-supplied transceivers and 1M optical cable) with a SOtM dCBL-Cat7 cable to my Nucleus and a DH Labs Reunion Cat8 to my Lumin T2 streamer, Keces P8 linear power supply feeding a (to come) NUC and EtherREGEN switch with an external AfterDark OCXO clock., and opticalModule (5V/1A), AudioQuest Niagara 1000 power conditioner, ASI LiveLine loom (purchased directly from Franck Tchang when I lived in France), Less Loss Firewall for Speakers and Roon lifetime license with Tidal streaming.
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#8
Guillaume, Flashman - nice posts!

I take the point particularly about the journey of discovery without a destination. For me one of my strongest memories of hearing what I thought was "proper" hi-fi was in the late 1970s or early 1980s, in a specialist shop in Coventry (of all places). I vividly remember listening to a large chunk of John Martyn's "Solid Air" on a demonstration system - I have no idea what it was, but certainly nothing truly high-end - and being almost literally awestruck by the sound picture it created. I'm sure it was a happy combination of beautiful music along with some technical aspects such as realistic imaging etc. that I hadn't heard before. Although my current system probably "does everything better" than what I heard that day, it is still with me as a strong guide to the emotional reaction that tells me when a system is working well.

[Sorry, this is well off the original topic...]
Roon (Mac Mini), Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Expert 1000 Pro CI, Kaiser Chiara
Warwickshire, UK
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#9
(04-Dec-2014, 13:35)Kari Wrote: Hi,

It was I who wrote the letter to Jeff Fritz and I note that Flashman and ozthepos (purposely?) misinterpret my mail. I did NOT ask Jeff Fritz to tell me what is best or what to buy. My mail concerned a technical question based on a curiosity about my own reactions when comparing the Devialet with a separate component solution. Given his long experience with many different types of amplifiers (and that his profession is to analyze hi-fi equipment) I thought it would be interesting to hear his view about the differences I heard in my comparison.

The types of comments that you post are so typical for those who really are uncertain on their own ears (which I am not). It is called regret aversion, i.e. a manic fear of having purchased the wrong thing, resulting in a Don Quixote behavior fighting every expressed opinion that does not imply an unreserved hallelujah for the product under discussion.

I might, or I might not, purchase a Devialet. But that decision will surely be dependent only on my own ears (and budget). I hope that you two can relax a bit and be happy with your Devialet(s) instead of worrying about what other persons might prefer. You deserve it, the Devialet is an outstanding product and you have made a very good purchase!

/Kari

No offence intended. That's hi-fi I guess - loads of different opinions, no universal truth :roll eyes: Far too easy to get dogmatic about this stuff when it's really all about the music!

(04-Dec-2014, 14:39)thumb5 Wrote: Guillaume, Flashman - nice posts!

I take the point particularly about the journey of discovery without a destination. For me one of my strongest memories of hearing what I thought was "proper" hi-fi was in the late 1970s or early 1980s, in a specialist shop in Coventry (of all places). I vividly remember listening to a large chunk of John Martyn's "Solid Air" on a demonstration system - I have no idea what it was, but certainly nothing truly high-end - and being almost literally awestruck by the sound picture it created. I'm sure it was a happy combination of beautiful music along with some technical aspects such as realistic imaging etc. that I hadn't heard before. Although my current system probably "does everything better" than what I heard that day, it is still with me as a strong guide to the emotional reaction that tells me when a system is working well.

[Sorry, this is well off the original topic...]

When I was 18 and bought my first (AKAI) separates system with AR speakers I thought I had achieved audio heaven! I mention that because John Martyn was one of the main people I was listening to back then. In fact, I'm going to play some now Big Grin
Devialet 1000 Pro. Martin Logan Montis, Michell Gyrodec, Melco N1ZH, Mutec MC3+ USB
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#10
While we're off topic Wink I have to tell you about my experience. I was in Bangkok for Christmas 2012 and found some great high end stores. So I bought a quality cd and listened to 1 song on heaps of systems; SF Aida with 4 Pass Lab mono blocks, The big TAD with all top TAD electronics, Wilson Sasha with top Ayre, Full McIntosh set up, top Meridian. And the only system that blew me away was some 10 grand SF's on all lower end Audio Research tube gear (still 10 grand each I guess) It certainly didn't have the power of the all $100,000.- plus systems but it was the most musical system out there by far.

Since then I learned a lot about speaker and seat placement (Jim Smith's GBS) and now when I hear something in a shop I can't help but wonder; Is it the system that I'm hearing or the set up? That's why I've decided to stick with the high resolution of the Devialet and do the fine tuning with the set up. It's amazing how much tuning you can do by just tilting or turning your speakers a bit. It's like having a 10 band equaliser!

Have fun searching Kari, but keep in mind that the set up of the systems you're listening to makes as much or more of a difference than the systems themselves.

I guess that brought is back on topic again Smile

Cheers,

Pim
                                                    Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,                                     
                                                                                                                                                                            Dynaudio C1 MkII.
                                                                                                                                                                              Jim Smith's GBS.
                                                                                                                                                                        Northern NSW Australia.
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