Devialet v Benchmark/Parasound/Pass Labs

[Flashman]

While we're off topic I have to tell you about my experience. I was in Bangkok for Christmas 2012 and found some great high end stores. So I bought a quality cd and listened to 1 song on heaps of systems; SF Aida with 4 Pass Lab mono blocks, The big TAD with all top TAD electronics, Wilson Sasha with top Ayre, Full McIntosh set up, top Meridian. And the only system that blew me away was some 10 grand SF's on all lower end Audio Research tube gear (still 10 grand each I guess) It certainly didn't have the power of the all $100,000.- plus systems but it was the most musical system out there by far.

Since then I learned a lot about speaker and seat placement (Jim Smith's GBS) and now when I hear something in a shop I can't help but wonder; Is it the system that I'm hearing or the set up? That's why I've decided to stick with the high resolution of the Devialet and do the fine tuning with the set up. It's amazing how much tuning you can do by just tilting or turning your speakers a bit. It's like having a 10 band equaliser!

Have fun searching Kari, but keep in mind that the set up of the systems you're listening to makes as much or more of a difference than the systems themselves.

I guess that brought is back on topic again

Cheers,

Pim

May be a bit off topic but actually, it ain't ! We're all looking for that elusive emotional connection with music and -- for some of us -- it triggers some lovely memories! I, too, found myself drawn into the music of John Martyn -- but on a different system than my Devialet (Red Wine Audio battery-powered amp, Monarchy Audio tube DAC/pre-amp and Omega single-driver speakers but abetted by an Omega sub). I just about fell out of my chair on some of his soulful tunes. Glad to find a few other fans of his music.

[MusicLover]

While we're off topic I have to tell you about my experience. I was in Bangkok for Christmas 2012 and found some great high end stores. So I bought a quality cd and listened to 1 song on heaps of systems; SF Aida with 4 Pass Lab mono blocks, The big TAD with all top TAD electronics, Wilson Sasha with top Ayre, Full McIntosh set up, top Meridian. And the only system that blew me away was some 10 grand SF's on all lower end Audio Research tube gear (still 10 grand each I guess) It certainly didn't have the power of the all $100,000.- plus systems but it was the most musical system out there by far.

Since then I learned a lot about speaker and seat placement (Jim Smith's GBS) and now when I hear something in a shop I can't help but wonder; Is it the system that I'm hearing or the set up? That's why I've decided to stick with the high resolution of the Devialet and do the fine tuning with the set up. It's amazing how much tuning you can do by just tilting or turning your speakers a bit. It's like having a 10 band equaliser!

Have fun searching Kari, but keep in mind that the set up of the systems you're listening to makes as much or more of a difference than the systems themselves.

I guess that brought is back on topic again

Cheers,

Pim

Spot on Pim,

The largest and most noticeable improvements, by far, I've experienced have been after messing with the speaker's position (toe in, rake, distance from the back wall...). And that's considering the room they interact with is quite ok acoustically.

I remember a conversation some time ago with a well known telecom engineer from Madrid (in the industry for over 40 years) who's set up some extremely high end systems, I'm talking here discussing with the architect and the owner how to design and prepare the dedicated room. Well, his take was that only around 25-30% of the sound was attributable to the electronics itself and all the rest was simply its interaction with the room.

@Kari

Back to the original thread, IMHO, I would just go with my ears and absolutely forget about brands. Wether it's Devialet, AR or any other, it's irrelevant.
Which reminds me... I still can't understand (unless you are an investor), the fanatism some people display about a certain brand.

Are we all thinking about the same green logo here? (which BTW I used to own before)

[adhesiv]

While we're off topic I have to tell you about my experience. I was in Bangkok for Christmas 2012 and found some great high end stores. So I bought a quality cd and listened to 1 song on heaps of systems; SF Aida with 4 Pass Lab mono blocks, The big TAD with all top TAD electronics, Wilson Sasha with top Ayre, Full McIntosh set up, top Meridian. And the only system that blew me away was some 10 grand SF's on all lower end Audio Research tube gear (still 10 grand each I guess) It certainly didn't have the power of the all $100,000.- plus systems but it was the most musical system out there by far.

Since then I learned a lot about speaker and seat placement (Jim Smith's GBS) and now when I hear something in a shop I can't help but wonder; Is it the system that I'm hearing or the set up? That's why I've decided to stick with the high resolution of the Devialet and do the fine tuning with the set up. It's amazing how much tuning you can do by just tilting or turning your speakers a bit. It's like having a 10 band equaliser!

Have fun searching Kari, but keep in mind that the set up of the systems you're listening to makes as much or more of a difference than the systems themselves.

I guess that brought is back on topic again

Cheers,

Pim

Spot on Pim,

The largest and most noticeable improvements, by far, I've experienced have been after messing with the speaker's position (toe in, rake, distance from the back wall...). And that's considering the room they interact with is quite ok acoustically.

I remember a conversation some time ago with a well known telecom engineer from Madrid (in the industry for over 40 years) who's set up some extremely high end systems, I'm talking here discussing with the architect and the owner how to design and prepare the dedicated room. Well, his take was that only around 25-30% of the sound was attributable to the electronics itself and all the rest was simply its interaction with the room.

@Kari

Back to the original thread, IMHO, I would just go with my ears and absolutely forget about brands. Wether it's Devialet, AR or any other, it's irrelevant.
Which reminds me... I still can't understand (unless you are an investor), the fanatism some people display about a certain brand.

Are we all thinking about the same green logo here? (which BTW I used to own before)

I used to be a member of the swan club too if that's who you're referring to (Cortese and Masseto)...now i'm happy as a peach with my Devialet.

[Damon]

Thanks, Guillaume, for posting the link to Kari's letter; it was good offering to this community. And I also appreciate that Kari joined, even if only to respond to other posts.

Kari did not ask for buying advice, as he points out, but neither did he ask for 'technical' advice. He was asking for an opinion, or perspective, about sound character and musical expression. Given that Jeff Fritz's column (which I've only heard of through this forum) is very compelling in favour of Devialet, it is especially nice to have a bit of his current comment about the 'character' of sound reproduction.

I've had tube gear, and loved it, at least some of the time, for the way it reproduced some parts of the music; vocals and midrange elements have been especially appealing. I also found faults and flaws that I became aware of over time. But eventually I found that Naim equipment gave me more, overall, of what I want to hear, including the emotion that I want to hear. I have friends who have an entirely different set of personal preferences for audio systems. We all do.

The Devialet seems to me to be so superb in delivering whatever is in the source that I'm finding that it is unique. I recently listened to some McIntosh equipment (no idea about the model or cost, except that it was much more than the Dev) and although it was very nice, it seemed to be less capable than the Devialet. And the McI system had much more power and was bigger, heavier, and much more expensive.

I think that accuracy is less important than musicality in my living room, although, when I listen to recordings of my own band, I know exactly what to listen for in terms of accuracy. I love what Naim equipment does to the music, though I would not proclaim it to be the most accurate. No doubt the Parasound/ Pass/ Benchmark system has a musical presentation that is compelling as well. I've never seen, let alone heard, anything from Pass or Parasound. But I've spent time with lots of modified tube gear, and listened a bit to Mac, Musical
Fidelity, Krell, SimAudio/ Moon, and Naim, and I just don't hear or feel anything that gets the music across the way Devialet does. Looking at the 120 or the 200 especially, I keep thinking that spending more is a tough sell.

(that was a lot of typing)

[Kari]

Thanks all of you, the next step in my search will be the soon to be released Coda S250 power amplifier, 200W class A (250W class A/B). I guess that the price will be similar to the Devialet 200 so this will be an interesting comparison. Adding the price of a Parasound Halo JC-2 preamplifier the price will be similar to the devialet 250 (the JC-2 must hold some sort of record in performance/price ratio for pre-amps!).

Kari

[amabrok]

(the JC-2 must hold some sort of record in performance/price ratio for pre-amps!).

Kari

I second that. the JC-2 is indeed one of the best sounding preamps i have owned / auditioned.

it served me well in my previous Parasound Halo setup i had before my Devialet.

[Kari]

Damon,

My question was, in fact, a very specific technical question, and the opinion I asked for did concern exactly that and not about sound character and musical expression. That is, I specifically asked for his opinion regarding my hypothesis that the sound difference I heard is related to the Parasound-Pass Labs combination adding something to the signal that is not there while the Devialet does not.

I think that most Devialet owners argue that the hypothesis is indeed true, but until science can come up with some unbiased method of testing the hypothesis, it will remain a hypothesis only. In this context it is interesting to study e.g. the measurements of the Parasound Halo JC-1 monoblock and JC-2 preamplifier as a combined entity that can be found in this link to a review in Australian Hifi:

http://www.avhub.com.au/product-reviews/...c1--392666

When the JC-1s are in class A there is actually less distortion (in the COMBINED entity) of the power- and the pre-amp than what is shown in the measurement of the Devialet D-Premier in Stereophile. This result was obtained even though the Newport Test Labs, as the result of a misunderstanding, performed the test with the JC-2 sitting directly on top of the JC-1, which is to say the least less than optimal. An almost identical measurement was obtained when the test lab measured the much cheaper combination Parasound Halo A21 power amplifier and P3 pre-amplifier (costs around one third of a Devialet 200).

Hence, I am still very interested in this technical question. While I lean towards the answer that the Devialet is more true to the input signal than most other combinations, I am far from certain that it bests all other similarly priced equipment. See for example my link to the test of the Parasound gear. Or, I guess (I have never heard it), Bruno Putzey Mola Mola gear....

Kari

[Confused]

Last year I actually tried to get a demo of the Parasound Halo, which I was considering as an option to power the KEF Blades. Now I had many, many options to consider for audition but after making a few enquiries regarding getting a demo of the Halo's, it was just looking far to difficult to organise. There were many other options to audition, plus I didn't want to spend the rest of my life tying to set up demos, so I didn't bother in the end.

Looking back at this, when I bought the Devialet I was reasonably happy that I had got just about the best product I could sound quality wise, at least for my taste. At this time I knew nothing of SAM, it did not exist. Now the step up in performance with SAM is such that I'm glad that I never listened to the Parasound, because I might have bought them! One thing I'm sure about is that if I was starting again now, I would buy the Devialet again, SAM would make the difference. I might have had a lucky escape!

[Kari]

Hi Confused,

Have you tried Dirac room correction? It does what SAM does + more...

Kari

[thumb5]

Hello Kari,

I have tried Dirac and found it generally "a good thing", at least in my room and with my system. However I don't think it's true to say that it does what SAM does, except fairly superficially. The point about SAM is that it's based on a detailed analysis of the loudspeaker's transfer function; that enables it to do things that a traditional room-correction approach can't do. One of those is ensuring that the speaker is always driven within safe limits.

Another, perhaps obvious, point is that because SAM is implemented in the amplifier itself, it's far more convenient than Dirac (that is, it works on all sources, not just computer-based ones).

Equally it's probably true to say that Dirac does things that SAM doesn't/can't.

Ian