Yet another Dual Mono Configuration Glitch!

[Mikeeo]

By the way, using the AES/EBU had been a real treat and I consider this a must connect as it really brought a considerable benefit to the system. Will report back soon when it has been cooking for a while.

/Mike

Hi Mike, so finally what RCA to AES/EBU cable did you choose?

Hi,

I did my own! RCA or BNC in one end and then my 75 ohm VHaudio silver coax connected to the XLR (Neutrik silver). Inside the case of the XLR I install a Lundahl 1574 ie 75 to 110 ohm transformer to which i hook all the wires in the right fashion. So conversion is right at the 110 ohm side.

/Mike

And do you really hear a significant improvement?

Hi,

I guess the proof is in the puddin' by trying in your own system and set-up (choice of cable and plugs). Yes it brought 'calmness' to the sound, like some not definable background disappeared, slightly more in control specially in very dynamic pieces of music, things feel slightly less constrained but still full control and flow... having a hard time describing this...

Anyone else noticed this?

/Mike

[amabrok]

Has there been any reports of marginal lag or delay between master and slave with the digital coaxial link?! And assuming yes, then could it be that the coaxial to XLR link minimises or eliminates this marginal lag and could be the reason behind what you are perceiving as a better relaxed control?!

This is all speculation of course and I could be totally off


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[thumb5]

What makes you think there might be a lag/delay with one cable but not another? It seems a bit unlikely to me.

[amabrok]

What makes you think there might be a lag/delay with one cable but not another? It seems a bit unlikely to me.

no idea as i said this is totally speculative

i am just trying to figure out what could be the reason behind the several reports stating a better sound quality switching from RAC-RAC link to RAC-BNC link

Assuming you start with a coaxial digital cable and then run it for a while as the link between master and slave, then use the same cable and terminate one end as XLR (as suggested by Devialet a true 75 ohm cable) and again assuming that termination and plugs are of the same quality, now use that custom made RCA-BNC cable between master and slave, now how could some of us perceive improvement?

[Confused]

I asked Devialet a question regarding the optimum method of dual mono linkage, after a number of email exchanges, they advised:

"Theoretically, RCA to XLR will provide the optimum solution. Usually, experienced customers notice the difference straight away. On the other hand, some customer notice a difference but it is not so significant for them.
It will depend on the sound quality, but judging by our exchanges, I guess you will notice it directly."

So that's all clear then.......

[thumb5]

That's indeed an interesting question, but it probably doesn't have a clear answer (otherwise the whole debate about whether/why cables make a difference would have been resolved already).

In this specific context one technical argument could be based on a better impedance match reducing reflections. I believe that's still speculation unless it's known that the reflections are enough to cause errors in the digital signal, and that the master/slave link is actually sensitive to those errors. For example: maybe the link uses some kind of error checking and recovery protocol, though I doubt it. But there are also psychological explanations such as expectation bias which might be coming into play. Particularly on this forum the standard cable seems to have such a bad reputation that we might be conditioned into thinking pretty much any other cable will sound better. And if (we believe) a different cable sounds better, all well and good.

I didn't mean to stop you speculating, of course, but I wondered whether you had any reason to suggest lag/delay as opposed to something else.

---

I asked Devialet a question regarding the optimum method of dual mono linkage, after a number of email exchanges, they advised:

"Theoretically, RCA to XLR will provide the optimum solution. Usually, experienced customers notice the difference straight away. On the other hand, some customer notice a difference but it is not so significant for them.
It will depend on the sound quality, but judging by our exchanges, I guess you will notice it directly."

So that's all clear then.......

Their technical support is beginning to have the Zen nature...!

[amabrok]

That's indeed an interesting question, but it probably doesn't have a clear answer (otherwise the whole debate about whether/why cables make a difference would have been resolved already).

In this specific context one technical argument could be based on a better impedance match reducing reflections. I believe that's still speculation unless it's known that the reflections are enough to cause errors in the digital signal, and that the master/slave link is actually sensitive to those errors. For example: maybe the link uses some kind of error checking and recovery protocol, though I doubt it. But there are also psychological explanations such as expectation bias which might be coming into play. Particularly on this forum the standard cable seems to have such a bad reputation that we might be conditioned into thinking pretty much any other cable will sound better. And if (we believe) a different cable sounds better, all well and good.

I didn't mean to stop you speculating, of course, but I wondered whether you had any reason to suggest lag/delay as opposed to something else.

can you believe that i did not even try the standard digital link that came with the companion simply because it was too short to allow me to place the master and slave units side by side and to accommodate the Aurender X100 in the middle.

Currently I am using QED Signature Coaxial digital cable and it seems to do a very good job, but then again i did not yet test any other link

---

I asked Devialet a question regarding the optimum method of dual mono linkage, after a number of email exchanges, they advised:

"Theoretically, RCA to XLR will provide the optimum solution. Usually, experienced customers notice the difference straight away. On the other hand, some customer notice a difference but it is not so significant for them.
It will depend on the sound quality, but judging by our exchanges, I guess you will notice it directly."

So that's all clear then.......

Their technical support is beginning to have the Zen nature...!

I like the state of zen we have here and how we support each other in the forum, after all music is all about reaching that higher state of nirvana

but honestly it is not what i expect form Devialet tech support

[Mikeeo]

That's indeed an interesting question, but it probably doesn't have a clear answer (otherwise the whole debate about whether/why cables make a difference would have been resolved already).

In this specific context one technical argument could be based on a better impedance match reducing reflections. I believe that's still speculation unless it's known that the reflections are enough to cause errors in the digital signal, and that the master/slave link is actually sensitive to those errors. For example: maybe the link uses some kind of error checking and recovery protocol, though I doubt it. But there are also psychological explanations such as expectation bias which might be coming into play. Particularly on this forum the standard cable seems to have such a bad reputation that we might be conditioned into thinking pretty much any other cable will sound better. And if (we believe) a different cable sounds better, all well and good.

I didn't mean to stop you speculating, of course, but I wondered whether you had any reason to suggest lag/delay as opposed to something else.

can you believe that i did not even try the standard digital link that came with the companion simply because it was too short to allow me to place the master and slave units side by side and to accommodate the Aurender X100 in the middle.

Currently I am using QED Signature Coaxial digital cable and it seems to do a very good job, but then again i did not yet test any other link

---

I asked Devialet a question regarding the optimum method of dual mono linkage, after a number of email exchanges, they advised:

"Theoretically, RCA to XLR will provide the optimum solution. Usually, experienced customers notice the difference straight away. On the other hand, some customer notice a difference but it is not so significant for them.
It will depend on the sound quality, but judging by our exchanges, I guess you will notice it directly."

So that's all clear then.......

Their technical support is beginning to have the Zen nature...!

I like the state of zen we have here and how we support each other in the forum, after all music is all about reaching that higher state of nirvana

but honestly it is not what i expect form Devialet tech support

So far only the connection between my unitiserve and devialet. Link cable in the process.

/Mike

[Mikeeo]

Just wrote to Devialet, an angry mail to say the least!

I just realized that we are part of a big beta tester gang or what else can I relate all the flaws that constantly show up or the weak response from Dev when we have issues with software etc or for the fact that the homepage is 'full' of missing facts, facts that are faulty (according to officials), hard to orientate, and like me getting thrown out at several occasions when configuring or even get a message saying I can't change settings as these are not mine etc etc.
I would say that the technology (and sound) behind this gear is great but the support and maintenance is crap. As I mention above, we are beta testers that paid some considerable cash for this and I am not impressed. They should pay us instead because I didn't go into this to become a beta tester. I was promised forefront products through new technology (it happened), new free upgrades and a cont' work with new and better functions.
Just take my last discovery, and what others also discovered, SAM, nothing about how to operate this on the homepage...

Seriously/Mike

[Confused]

@Mikeeo - It's quite a long list when you look at it, Configurator issues, the infamous white noise, poor information on the website, not much about SAM (other than the commercial stuff), poor information on the dual mono digital link cable, poor information regarding streaming, USB vs AIR performance, plus many more.

For me, I have sent Devialet a number of correspondences regarding the technical issues and have spoken to them directly. Typically their responses are very guarded. It's almost like they think that if they don't admit to the issues then they won't exist, so they try to pretend all is ok. I do wonder if with the expansion into China, implementing SAM, the work they have been doing on whatever Phantomrising is and so on, that resources have been very stretched recently.

Ever the optimist, I am hoping that with the work for the new "Phantomrising" product done, then maybe the pressure will ease in the Devialet ranks and we will now enter a period where all these issues will be sorted out.

For me, I have now kind of given up for a while. I have stopped trying to use slave inputs, I have a workaround for my white noise issues. So although not fully optimised, I have a system that works, and sounds good. I'm just going to enjoy the music, and patiently wait for Devialet to sort themselves out. I just hope I don't have to be too patient!