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Meridian MQA
(17-Feb-2017, 19:38)Dr Tone Wrote: Let's use AIR as example of Devialet's software prowess followed by the list of new features added in firmware updates over the last year and a half.  I suggest you don't hold your breath.

You're forgetting MQA is a TLA, and they love those, so they won't be able to resist.

This might just be about to get big enough that adoption is viewed as mandatory by the market.
Roon, Rega P9 + Dynavector XX2Mk2 > 440 Pro > Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution
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Yeah, but it's not their TLA. Plus they'd have to pay for it, and actually communicate with an outside company to implement it. They'd almost certainly have to re-architect their whole firmware to accommodate it because the MQA requirements are apparently very specific in terms of how DSP stages are integrated.

I think Dr Tones got it summed up pretty well.

>>> 1st Place Award: Devialet, last decades most disappointing technology purchase.  <<<

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(17-Feb-2017, 19:38)Dr Tone Wrote:
(17-Feb-2017, 18:50)Devialetuser Wrote: I believe Devialet has the capability to add a software MQA decoder inside the expert/phantom range with a firmware update. Since they have a close relationship with Tidal this capability might not be far off.

Confused 

Let's use AIR as example of Devialet's software prowess followed by the list of new features added in firmware updates over the last year and a half.  I suggest you don't hold your breath.

It seems you might be right. I was under the impression that since Auralic had shown a software implementation of  MQA with the Aries and Aries mini back in 2016, other companies would follow: But just found out that Auralic is no longer supporting MQA on their devices:

http://support.auralic.com/hc/en-us/arti...LiC-device-

To be frank I do feel a sense of frustration with the owners of Devialet expert. It is understandable if you have spent upwards of £12,000 you might have an urge to hear double DSD or even Quad DSD same for MQA but are limited to 24/192. That is the price we pay for a single box solution.
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Fairly certain Devialet do not have any control over Auralic.

I suppose they may be under the mistaken impression that more than 24/192 is a waste.
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Spain kit - NUC7i5 - W10  - Roonserver - Roon AIR - Devialet D250 Pro CI - Blue Jeans Speaker Cable - Ergo IX speakers
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Did not mean to imply that Devialet has any control over Auralic. Just wanted to correlate why other companies might have a problem implementing MQA. Here is what Auralic has on their website

"AURALiC has done a live demo during CES 2016 for MQA on ARIES and ARIES MINI. It is however after MQA realized that ARIES does not have any DAC built-in and ARIES MINI has a digital output in parallel connection of its DAC I2S signal, they pulled it back immediately. They believe the MQA process is end to end and the DAC has to be optimized for MQA playback, so any digital output of fully decoded signal is unacceptable."

Personally I find DSD to be superior to 24/192 and the distinction becomes even more evident as you move to Double DSD. Businesses who think its a waste to go above 24/192 are heavily invested in PCM technology, and are doing a disservice to their customers. It is the same argument you hear about bit are bit or all good DAC sound the same.

Anyhow here is a good read on MQA, for those that are interested:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/conten...-civilians

I can tolerate a couple hours of 24/192, but for a 4-5 hr listening session its vinyl or dsd. MQA at 24 bit / 352.8 kHz sounds just as pleasing to listen to as a DSD file in my opinion.
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(17-Feb-2017, 22:21)Devialetuser Wrote:
(17-Feb-2017, 19:38)Dr Tone Wrote:
(17-Feb-2017, 18:50)Devialetuser Wrote: I believe Devialet has the capability to add a software MQA decoder inside the expert/phantom range with a firmware update. Since they have a close relationship with Tidal this capability might not be far off.

Confused 

Let's use AIR as example of Devialet's software prowess followed by the list of new features added in firmware updates over the last year and a half.  I suggest you don't hold your breath.

It seems you might be right. I was under the impression that since Auralic had shown a software implementation of  MQA with the Aries and Aries mini back in 2016, other companies would follow: But just found out that Auralic is no longer supporting MQA on their devices:

http://support.auralic.com/hc/en-us/arti...LiC-device-

To be frank I do feel a sense of frustration with the owners of Devialet expert. It is understandable if you have spent upwards of £12,000 you might have an urge to hear double DSD or even Quad DSD same for MQA but are limited to 24/192. That is the price we pay for a single box solution.
I agree with Dr Tone's suggestion of not holding your breath waiting for Devialet to go all in on MQA, you would soon be dead. 

That said, I do not feel any of the frustration mentioned by @Devialetuser.  Specifically with MQA, I think a Devialet will work just fine.  We are seeing more and more 'software decoding' solutions for MQA, and I think these will basically provide all the MQA goodness you need.  For me, the real trick that MQA are performing is the correction of A/D conversion errors in the original recording and mastering.  All of this is included in the basic MQA file, and does not need 'decoding' either via software of hardware.  Indeed, MQA could offer files with the original A/D corrections removed in good old 24 bit flac or wav files.  Of course they will not, as this does not fit with their business model, MQA are not a charity.  Then we have the two stage unfolding.  The first stage gives you something close to a 24/96 file, which in absolute terms very high resolution.  Indeed, I believe that a majority of the original master files do not exceed this resolution, so the first unfold is all you need.  In some cases you will miss out on the second unfurl to 24/192 if you are using software only decoding, but you know what, I suspect that in the real world you would really struggle to notice the difference here.  If you want, try getting a 24/192 file, down-sampling it to 24/96, and see if you can notice the difference in a blind test.  Interestingly, there have seen some rumors and speculation regarding the second fold being made by software decoding.  This makes sense, if MQA want to rule the world, they will need to offer something desirable, and if they are shunning the owners of non MQA DACs, that is most of the audiophile world currently, and certainly not just Devialet users.  Lastly, we have MQA's magic de-blurring of your own DAC.  To be honest, I do not think this is something that Devialet Expert users need to spend a moment worrying about, there is very little blurring to be removed, particularly when you note what the new Pro ADH is capable of, the detail resolution is so good that there cannot possibly be anything to de-blur.  Of course, MQA are a business.  They need to sell there wares to the streaming companies, record companies and us lot.  They want our cash.  So they are going out of their way to make out that MQA is the greatest thing ever, and to fully appreciate it you absolutely must have a DAC will a little MQA light on it, and unless you see that little light come on you are missing out.  Of course, audiophiles are an utterly paranoid lot, and will fret endlessly that their DAC does not have a little MQA light, and although the recording sounds absolutely sublime, maybe something is missing, oh if only my MQA light will come on, if only my DAC had a little MQA light.

Time will tell if MQA will take over the world, or fail with spectacular debts.  (looking at the total lack of interest in 'hi-res' music from 99.9% of the public, I think the latter is entirely possible)  Meanwhile, if you happen to stumble across an MQA file, either via Tidal or whatever route may emerge in the future, unfold it the maximum extent you software 'decoder' will allow, and enjoy the lovely high quality music that may emerge.  Worrying about whether or not Devialet adopt MQA is a waste of time, it is very unlikely they will, and if they do, quite frankly the difference it will make to sound quality will be tiny to nothing.  Enjoy MQA by all means, but do not fall for the line you are missing out by not spending cash on an MQA licenced DAC.
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(17-Feb-2017, 18:50)I Devialetuser Wrote: As an owner of  a Devialet 400 and more recently the Mytek Brooklyn DAC (connected to a pre/power class AB amp) I think I can add something to the conversation. I have downloaded and listened to some MQA files recently. Firstly they are about 700MB so it takes about 15 mins to download on my slow 8Mbps internet connection. Compare that to about 25 mins for a 24/192 or 40min for a 64DSD.

Now to the sound: The first time I played an MQA file I expected it to sound no better than a 24/192 PCM file. But to my surprise it sounded more like a DSD file. Lots and lots of detail, holographic soundstage, air between the instruments, and absolutely no fatigue. It was like listening to a record on my Rega RP8. I believe this is a very significant step forward in PCM technology, and I can finally listen to streaming Hi-Rez music without any sense of fatigue. Is it better than DSD? No. But is it better than 24/96? Absolutely yes. We can debate about 24/192. Since I started listening to DSD music I understood why people were comparing it to an analogue sound. Music should be detailed but at the same time relaxing and that is what MQA sounds like.

I believe Devialet has the capability to add a software MQA decoder inside the expert/phantom range with a firmware update. Since they have a close relationship with Tidal this capability might not be far off. But I am a believer in MQA because I have had a chance to listen. I think if you are a music lover you owe it to yourself to audition MQA, you shall be pleasantly surprised.



I have a D440 and my experience matches yours. Tidal software decoded MQA sounds wonderful, natural, clear and organic, similar to, but better than an LP on my venerable LINN LP12 Ittok. 

Some people say they cannot hear any difference on their systems even compared to 16/44 CD, which mystifies me, since the differences are so marked - perhaps people have configuration issues with Tidal ( Tidal do not explain the set up very well) or maybe people hate the concept of MQA and fear a "DRM" bogeyman so much that they don't give MQA a fair hearing.

I am perfectly  happy to pay for music that gives me listening pleasure and am ready to pay for an innovation that improves that music. As of now, MQA's improvements are actually free to me whereas DSD costs €25 per album ( if available at all).
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@Confused I can tell the difference between 24/96 and 24/192 file. If I listen too long to 24/96 I get digititus. Just have to switch off the music and go do something else. Also I have noticed becoming more irritated the longer I listen to 24/96. While listening to 24/192 is more relaxing. I have a test for all this and it's the doze off  test. If I doze off will listening to a recording well in my book that is the best one. On the other hand if I become hyper alert borderline anxious while listening to music then that is a sign it not going to be a pleasurable experience.

On the topic of MQA I agree software decoding will get you 90% of the benefits. But I don't agree with you regarding the blue MQA indication. That is a very significant part of the technology and informs the customer that they are getting what they paid for. Just like when I go buy Blue Stilton it has a sticker saying "Protected designation of origin". It give me confidence that no one has messed around with my cheese.

In all seriousness you have mentioned some very meaningful points. But  MQA is already on its way to becoming a very successful PCM delivery platform beginning with streaming. Let's not be too hard on MQA just because Devialet has not implemented it. It comes off as sour grapes.
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(18-Feb-2017, 15:22)Devialetuser Wrote: ...
I have a test for all this and it's the doze off  test. If I doze off will listening to a recording well in my book that is the best one.

I must say, that's the last thing I'd want from my music. Each to his own!
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(18-Feb-2017, 18:17)thumb5 Wrote:
(18-Feb-2017, 15:22)Devialetuser Wrote: ...
I have a test for all this and it's the doze off  test. If I doze off will listening to a recording well in my book that is the best one.

I must say, that's the last thing I'd want from my music.  Each to his own!

Yeah me too!!
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