Q: SAM - impact on small speakers bass (i.e. KEF LS50)

[Pim]

"When talking to Devialet's chief engineer at a dealer event last year, he stated that full range SAM is possible and being considered for future implementation.  I guess this is a long way down Devialet's action list at the moment though."



I'll be ashes in a container when it happens. To that long way down list add DoP that's been talked about with maybe, could be, might appear at Munich show. I'm not waiting for Devialet. I'm sampling my large collection of DSF files down to 96 kHz so I can use them now with my "not-so-magic" D120. Best advice I've not taken to heart in audio is, "Don't buy component with promises of features coming soon, but buy component that has them NOW." Devialet is the hipster chaser and lifestyle brand, and the not so chic best not apply. Devialet's "invitation to buy" would have made me smile if it wasn't so snotty. "We're so h-o-t you've got to get in line!" Ugh.

Hi Geoff, 

You don't sound very happy. Have you already down converted those files? And if so, how do they sound and why did you choose 96kHz when you have 192 kHz available? Is that because Devialet recommend 96 for DA conversion?

[Mikeeo]

Personally, I'm mildly underwhelmed by what SAM does to my LS50's (let's say 80% happy!). Sure, the bass undergoes a phenomenal increase in quantity & control, but rather than subjectively improving the entire frequency range - as many report - it made the mid and treble frequencies seem "left behind" in the quality jump, making them feel unbalanced to me.
They certainly closed the gap on my £1100 XTZ floorstanders (SEAS drivers+Ribbon tweeter), but the XTZ still pull ahead with a more realistic presentation. The KEF's are very good at sweetening up digital music and making it more listenable, but ultimately I prefer to be told the truth!
What I'm trying to say is that I'd rather have SAM, but it leaves me wanting for them to push the frequency processing up beyond 150Hz... (not possible unless we go and fetch a Sharc DSP processor from the Future, I suppose).

When talking to Devialet's chief engineer at a dealer event last year, he stated that full range SAM is possible and being considered for future implementation.  I guess this is a long way down Devialet's action list at the moment though.

Confused, Isn't it already full? Is the SAM graphics wrong when showing the whole range? For me SAM did more to the rest of the spectrum than the added bass. Or I am totally lost in understanding this!?

My Raidho X1 responds to SAM all over the register, SAM actually takes this speaker far beyond the already superb performance, hard to believe...

/Mike

[Confused]

In response to the above, SAM only works below 200 hertz. This is only part of the story though. I and many others have noticed unexpected things when using SAM, such as improved stereo imigary, cleaner mids and highs and so on. Some kind of strange effect, where cleaning up the bass gives improvements elsewhere.

And as to precisely what those SAM graphs represent, I have no idea, they look nice though.

[ledesc]

[...]

My Raidho X1 responds to SAM all over the register, SAM actually takes this speaker far beyond the already superb performance, hard to believe...

/Mike

Hi Mike,

If I remember well you've had the Focus 160 before the X1, what the X1 brings, do you experience the same feeling in term of bass with the X1 (170mm vs 100mm driver and 44Hz vs 80Hz) ?

Thanks for your feedbacks

[Mikeeo]

[...]

My Raidho X1 responds to SAM all over the register, SAM actually takes this speaker far beyond the already superb performance, hard to believe...

/Mike

Hi Mike,

If I remember well you've had the Focus 160 before the X1, what the X1 brings, do you experience the same feeling in term of bass with the X1 (170mm vs 100mm driver and 44Hz vs 80Hz) ?

Thanks for your feedbacks

Hi,

I had the Monitor Audio Platinum PL100 before. Without SAM PL100 have more bass than X1 without SAM, But with SAM on X1 it kicks SAM/noSAM PL100. X1 delivers deeper bass than PL100 with SAM. X1 have strong presence down to 30 Hz and give ok 25 Hz but then dives into nothing.
The 80 Hz specced by Raidho I think is a - 1 or -2 dB point as without SAM there is def bass to around 50 Hz..
The bass with X1 is dry and tight, very resolved and occasionally when recording has it recorded bass can really hit physically.

Go and have a test, with SAM X1 is a small monitor wonder. Of course I didn't mention the rest 90% of the fantastic reproduction these speakers manage to deliver. A very fantastic loudspeaker is turned into amazing with SAM.

/Mike

[ledesc]

Thanks for your feedbacks on this very very attractive X1.
What is your listening room size ?

[Mikeeo]

Thanks for your feedbacks on this very very attractive X1.
What is your listening room size ?

About 30 m2!

Still need to acoustically tune the room when time allows.

/Mike

[flohmann]

I find I did not like the default SAM treatment on my Magico Q1 speakers, but I found that by reducing the SAM to 10% (which you can do in the tone control settings when SAM is active), I achieved the greatest benefit. With the full 100% SAM treatment, I found that the bass was too boomy, not nearly as fast as it is from the Q1 without SAM. Sure, there was more of it, but it detracted from the overall sound.

Keep in mind that SAM does both time alignment and bass boost. When you reduce the "SAM percentage," you can dial back the bass boost, but still retain the advantages of driver time alignment. Definitely makes a difference in imaging and immediacy in my set up.

[bobertk]

Greetings,

Hope this is the right forum to post.  All the SAM discussion seem to be gathered in this forum.

Question - having never heard Devialet's SAM in action, I am quite amazed by the claim that it now help the LS50 to produce bass down to 28hz.  I believe that he LS50 is one of the first speakers that they matched to SAM.  That is stunning bass extension for a speaker that small.

However, I'm not sure how SAM can produce much usable bass down to 28hz and if they limit woofer excursion so that there is no damage.

A few questions if I may:

1. Has anyone actually done a frequency sweep test to see what the dropoff is at 28hz?  I wonder how flat it is down to 28hz.

2. And if it does get down to 28hz, what decibels is it actually capable of at that frequency response? Wondering how usable that is.

3. And if you use SAM with the LS50, what % do you set it and does it reduce the quality of the mids and trebles?

The claims of SAM is quite astounding to me - and yes, I realize that I'm a bit late to the party as this feature has been out a while. I've tried to google for answer but did not turn up any.  Perhaps few people match a $6500 amp to a $1500 speaker...

Thanks!
MtnGuy

LS50 Bass is much stronger when SAMed.  Overall sound gets more transparent.